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Sorceror Bob Vs Doord in a Digital Draw Off

Submitted by Doord on
Forum

Well Matt (Sorceror Bob) and I (Doord) were chatting about art on MSN as we usually do around 4 O'clock. And we came around to rating ourselves out of ten for a modelling and 2D skills. I gave my self a 8/10 for modelling and a 4.5/10 for 2D. Were Matt said he would rate himself a little lower and model and a bit higher in 2D then myself.

Well me being an ego crazy freak (as a lot of you know) I said I would draw a image for Matt and see what he reckoned. Then I ask if he would like to be in on it and the little comp was formed.

The two of us are going to draw one character each and wish for you guy to vote on the one you like the best, few free to add and comments on the works also.

There are very few rules.

- One character.
- No background. Character need to take up 80% of the image, clothing or object(s) the character is interacting with are counted as the character. (Does that help you out Matt?)
- No character story or explanation just the drawing. A title can be added.
- Characters will be posted together on the 1st of April 9:00am EST.
- When Character are posted there are to be no names on the image, so judges do not which image is is owned by who.
- WIP are to be posted after voting. 5th of April 9:00am EST.

Submitted by J I Styles on Mon, 05/04/04 - 10:19 PM Permalink

Doord: don't take my comments in offence, that wasn't the aim - the aim of my comments was to share first impressions as just another member of the audience. My opinions and comments don't mean jack in a very real sense [:)]

What I was trying to point out was an impression, not a petty accusation. At first glance that's what it visually looks like - the type of stuff where a graphic design student gets line art from a pretty girl, adds some elements to it, and some basic shading - My point being it doesn't matter if photo-ref was or wasn't used - what matters is the final product. What it is in the end. That's what I meant by my last sentence in closing. The end product looks like that, it doesn't matter how it was produced.

So let me explain what I meant more clearly. By the 4th step in your WIP, it has that associated look, and retains that look right up to the final. So why is that? mostly a combination of two things - the "clean" line art, and basic gradients of "pure" shading. The line art is "clean" meaning that yes it's smooth lines and not messy, but it doesn't hold any weight, or depict any form within the lines, it's all single weighted silhouetting which is what you get straight out of vector output like outlining sketches with max splines, or pen tool in photoshop, or outlining in Flash.

The shading is very basic pure gradients of colour X to a smooth transition of a darker variety of colour x. There's no temperature shifts, or allowances for things like red tints where the blood is closer to the surface of the skin (hands, nose, etc). There are no distinctions between material properties - I can't tell what things are made out of. Does blue equal metal, or is it just the same cloth material except a blue colour?

So, in essence I wasn't making brash accusations of it being traced from a photo - just commenting that that's the visual comparison.

Submitted by Doord on Mon, 05/04/04 - 11:19 PM Permalink

Yes you are right there is a lack of texture on the character once again something I was going to add and I know that the character needs. But hopeful next time.

Also I need to work on the line work showing up in the final image as I have already said a number or times. Thanks for the help.

Submitted by Sorceror Bob on Mon, 05/04/04 - 11:36 PM Permalink

Okey Dokey, here are my steps.. I have to apologise that I have nothing from 3 to the final one. As the rest of that work is on the other computer.. (gotta love when photoshop decides to stop working)

The sketch
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/1.JPG[/img]
The first step was in my sketch book. I have a tendency to over think things, so for about 6 pages, I just drew and drew and drew like crazy. This is the concept that I felt would translate best into into this medium. So I went with it.

Colour Blocks
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/2.jpg[/img]
After that, using a large brush I basically layed down the colours I was going to use, and giving some basic shading to help me visualise what the lighting was going to look like. I ended up scrapping these colours and went for something a little darker. (thanks to joel for pointing me in the right direction at this stage)

Refinement
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/3.jpg[/img]
With the final colours down, it was time to do individual passes, I selected a smaller brush size, went over everything, then repeated that with a smaller brush size. This is basically what I did until the final product. It was also at this stage that I lost the entire weekend to photoshop dying.. Dammit. I ended up losing all the colours I was working with, and had to eye-dropper them to get them close. That sucked.

Final
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/junglefinish.jpg[/img]
Err.. The *final* step of refinement.. By final, I mean the last step I could do before the deadline.. I did have more planned, but I was happy to get it to this stage.. I haven't done anything to this level before, and am quite happy with how it went.

Things to work on.
1. Getting photoshop working on my computer again (grrr)
2. Dynamic poses.

Thanks everyone for the kind words and crits!!

Submitted by Sorceror Bob on Tue, 06/04/04 - 1:44 AM Permalink

oh and yeah, if anyone would like to 'challenge' me, send me an email - mattpadovan@iinet.net.au

I'll be more than happy to 'take someone on', even though I dont think that is the aim of these things :)
We can get them started as soon as i get photoshop working (doing a format soon)

Submitted by Kalescent on Wed, 07/04/04 - 7:11 AM Permalink

id definately like to challenge someone - but bags not matias ;) i need a beginner .. someone whose at stick figure level should be right.. LOL!

No but seriously id really like to brush up on my concept - its a pretty sad state of affairs compared to some around here...

so any takers for my challenge ?

Submitted by Doord on Wed, 07/04/04 - 7:50 PM Permalink

Well as far as the official duel off goes I have the next dueler, but you are free to put you name down next to duel with the winner of round 2. Or just draw something for the fun of it.

Submitted by hobonation on Thu, 08/04/04 - 3:24 AM Permalink

Well, I am pretty close to stick figure level..in photoshop anyway.

Submitted by matias on Wed, 14/04/04 - 8:49 AM Permalink

has the duel been set? when are the next two gauntleters going on? Are we gonna see some super rockemsockem, knock down bang up super duperbolic dueling fist slingin pencil waving pixel kicking spectaculaaaaaaar battles going down? or has it ground down to a halt?
I am still hangin out for this guys!![:D]

Posted by Doord on
Forum

Well Matt (Sorceror Bob) and I (Doord) were chatting about art on MSN as we usually do around 4 O'clock. And we came around to rating ourselves out of ten for a modelling and 2D skills. I gave my self a 8/10 for modelling and a 4.5/10 for 2D. Were Matt said he would rate himself a little lower and model and a bit higher in 2D then myself.

Well me being an ego crazy freak (as a lot of you know) I said I would draw a image for Matt and see what he reckoned. Then I ask if he would like to be in on it and the little comp was formed.

The two of us are going to draw one character each and wish for you guy to vote on the one you like the best, few free to add and comments on the works also.

There are very few rules.

- One character.
- No background. Character need to take up 80% of the image, clothing or object(s) the character is interacting with are counted as the character. (Does that help you out Matt?)
- No character story or explanation just the drawing. A title can be added.
- Characters will be posted together on the 1st of April 9:00am EST.
- When Character are posted there are to be no names on the image, so judges do not which image is is owned by who.
- WIP are to be posted after voting. 5th of April 9:00am EST.


Submitted by J I Styles on Mon, 05/04/04 - 10:19 PM Permalink

Doord: don't take my comments in offence, that wasn't the aim - the aim of my comments was to share first impressions as just another member of the audience. My opinions and comments don't mean jack in a very real sense [:)]

What I was trying to point out was an impression, not a petty accusation. At first glance that's what it visually looks like - the type of stuff where a graphic design student gets line art from a pretty girl, adds some elements to it, and some basic shading - My point being it doesn't matter if photo-ref was or wasn't used - what matters is the final product. What it is in the end. That's what I meant by my last sentence in closing. The end product looks like that, it doesn't matter how it was produced.

So let me explain what I meant more clearly. By the 4th step in your WIP, it has that associated look, and retains that look right up to the final. So why is that? mostly a combination of two things - the "clean" line art, and basic gradients of "pure" shading. The line art is "clean" meaning that yes it's smooth lines and not messy, but it doesn't hold any weight, or depict any form within the lines, it's all single weighted silhouetting which is what you get straight out of vector output like outlining sketches with max splines, or pen tool in photoshop, or outlining in Flash.

The shading is very basic pure gradients of colour X to a smooth transition of a darker variety of colour x. There's no temperature shifts, or allowances for things like red tints where the blood is closer to the surface of the skin (hands, nose, etc). There are no distinctions between material properties - I can't tell what things are made out of. Does blue equal metal, or is it just the same cloth material except a blue colour?

So, in essence I wasn't making brash accusations of it being traced from a photo - just commenting that that's the visual comparison.

Submitted by Doord on Mon, 05/04/04 - 11:19 PM Permalink

Yes you are right there is a lack of texture on the character once again something I was going to add and I know that the character needs. But hopeful next time.

Also I need to work on the line work showing up in the final image as I have already said a number or times. Thanks for the help.

Submitted by Sorceror Bob on Mon, 05/04/04 - 11:36 PM Permalink

Okey Dokey, here are my steps.. I have to apologise that I have nothing from 3 to the final one. As the rest of that work is on the other computer.. (gotta love when photoshop decides to stop working)

The sketch
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/1.JPG[/img]
The first step was in my sketch book. I have a tendency to over think things, so for about 6 pages, I just drew and drew and drew like crazy. This is the concept that I felt would translate best into into this medium. So I went with it.

Colour Blocks
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/2.jpg[/img]
After that, using a large brush I basically layed down the colours I was going to use, and giving some basic shading to help me visualise what the lighting was going to look like. I ended up scrapping these colours and went for something a little darker. (thanks to joel for pointing me in the right direction at this stage)

Refinement
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/3.jpg[/img]
With the final colours down, it was time to do individual passes, I selected a smaller brush size, went over everything, then repeated that with a smaller brush size. This is basically what I did until the final product. It was also at this stage that I lost the entire weekend to photoshop dying.. Dammit. I ended up losing all the colours I was working with, and had to eye-dropper them to get them close. That sucked.

Final
[img]http://www.boomspeed.com/sorcerorbob/junglefinish.jpg[/img]
Err.. The *final* step of refinement.. By final, I mean the last step I could do before the deadline.. I did have more planned, but I was happy to get it to this stage.. I haven't done anything to this level before, and am quite happy with how it went.

Things to work on.
1. Getting photoshop working on my computer again (grrr)
2. Dynamic poses.

Thanks everyone for the kind words and crits!!

Submitted by Sorceror Bob on Tue, 06/04/04 - 1:44 AM Permalink

oh and yeah, if anyone would like to 'challenge' me, send me an email - mattpadovan@iinet.net.au

I'll be more than happy to 'take someone on', even though I dont think that is the aim of these things :)
We can get them started as soon as i get photoshop working (doing a format soon)

Submitted by Kalescent on Wed, 07/04/04 - 7:11 AM Permalink

id definately like to challenge someone - but bags not matias ;) i need a beginner .. someone whose at stick figure level should be right.. LOL!

No but seriously id really like to brush up on my concept - its a pretty sad state of affairs compared to some around here...

so any takers for my challenge ?

Submitted by Doord on Wed, 07/04/04 - 7:50 PM Permalink

Well as far as the official duel off goes I have the next dueler, but you are free to put you name down next to duel with the winner of round 2. Or just draw something for the fun of it.

Submitted by hobonation on Thu, 08/04/04 - 3:24 AM Permalink

Well, I am pretty close to stick figure level..in photoshop anyway.

Submitted by matias on Wed, 14/04/04 - 8:49 AM Permalink

has the duel been set? when are the next two gauntleters going on? Are we gonna see some super rockemsockem, knock down bang up super duperbolic dueling fist slingin pencil waving pixel kicking spectaculaaaaaaar battles going down? or has it ground down to a halt?
I am still hangin out for this guys!![:D]