The bad news keep on coming in for the local development industry, the latest involving Sydney developer Perception. The reports are that Stargate SG-1The Alliance has been cancelled, and that all Perception staff were laid off yesterday after lunch. From the official Stargate game forum...
It pains me to say this but unfortunately Stargate SG-1 The Alliance has been canceled.
An official statement is forth coming from MGM and/or perception in the coming days.
I would like to take this opportunity to wish all the employees of Perception all the very best for the future. Having seen the game first hand I know you guys did a fantastic job and you have every right to feel proud of what you have done.
I encourage all the Perception employees who are hidden members of this forum to let yourselves be known. You should be proud of the work you have done and I encourage all members of the forum here to congratulate the Perception crew and to wish them all the very best.
Sad news indeed, particularly since the game had reached internal alpha just a few months ago...
* Additional links:
Gamesindustry.biz Gamasutra Slashdot SGTA Petition
Followling link goes to the forum post...
Ouch. Really bad luck. Best of luck guys.
Worst part is I was looking forward to seeing the game.
Hmm another game developer bites the dust. Good luck Guys
The only real surprise here is that they managed to keep it going for so long. The management were hopelessly out of their depth. They managed to score such an awesome deal but just didn't have a clue how to make a game of this scale and were just downright delusional about the PS2 and Xbox versions.
It was pretty obvious by June last year that the last chance to set things right had been missed (a fact that management was made aware of and chose to ignore), from there it was just a matter of time.
The art is fantastic BTW, its a real shame that most of it cannot be used without the StarGate license...
"The management were hopelessly out of their depth" -- sounds like a lot of Australian Game Developer Companies Managers,
From one of the staff members at Perception:
"For the last couple of months, we have had several good offers from interested publishers. They only needed one thing - MGM's approval. Since MGM are the owners of the Stargate license, everything needs to be approved by them, even new publisher contracts. So, when we approached MGM about these contracts...MGM basically sat on their hands and did nothing. They didn't flat out say no, but they didn't say yes either. They expressed concerns with areas of the game. We addressed those concerns. Still no publisher approval. We showed them other offers from publishers, and that said publishers were asking for more information on the license. Did MGM provide it? No, even though contractually they were supposed to.
In the end it was pretty obvious MGM wanted the project canned for some reason that eludes everyone except them, but they didn't want to be the ones to do it. So, they just sat on their hands and did nothing for several months, to the point where Perception could not afford to keep working on the game knowing that they didn't have MGM's approval, and will probably never get it. Developers need publishers to fund the creation of a game. Without the publisher, the developer gets no income. Without MGM's approval, Perception couldn't sign a publisher. So the equation is pretty simple. There's only so long a developer can hold on financially without publisher backing.
As of about Friday the 20th of January 2006, at about 1pm Sydney time, the title "Stargate SG-1: The Alliance" was terminated for all SKU's. This also means the entire development team was "let go". I am now out of a job. After putting blood, sweat and tears into this thing for the last year and a half, and pulling some ridiculous hours on more occasions I can count, it's all for nothing."
Bugger.
Good luck all - our thoughts are with y'all.
Ditto PB.
If you are going to run a games company get in EXPERIENCED management and focus on the process as much as the product. MGM probably canned the game because they saw that the foundations were seriously flawed and anything built on top would would crumble hopelessly. Running a games company is more than just juggling deals and money. Look at the number of staff to leave in the past 6 months, you can't just throw people at a project and expect it to be successful.
Its about creating a structured, well planned and realistic proccess. Running an efficient, focused and inspired team of people.
Its a damn shame for Sydney to lose a games company like this, many of us were given great opportunities at Perception and that is something to be greatfull for, as frustrating as the last year has been. Having said that, my thoughts go out to all the internationals who's plans have been royally screwed by this mess.
Lets hope we all get paid the last *two months* wages owed to us.
:
word on the street is that perception did not pay their staff for the last two months
Sad news, but I too am surprised they lasted this long. As a staff member at Perception I was constantly dumbfounded by decisions made by Perception management and the contempt they seemed to hold the staff in. I never saw the sense in putting all that effort into building a world class team and then treating them like a bunch of naughty school children. In today's competitive market, treating employees with respect is the least a company should be doing to install any sense of loyalty in a team, and in my opinion Perception failed miserably at this. The large number of employees that resigned during 2005 (close to 30?) should have told them that they were doing something wrong.
The responsibility for what has happened falls squarely on the shoulders of Ben, the Project Manager and the ?HR Manager', they were told many times of the problems but either chose to ignore them or lacked the knowledge and experience to do anything effective about them.
Good luck to everyone.
As a freelance concept artist on the project until a year ago, I'm not directly privy to what has transpired over the past 12 months. I do know however that the company had been haemorrhaging team members in that time, and that from my observations while working there and given what I've been told the opinions expressed by pb and the anonyomous former perception employees here aren't too wide of the mark. I have to say alarm bells first began to ring for me when the boss, decided to invest in a $250K motor vehicle (perhaps after you've had a few successful titles under your belt?). Perception simply tried to grow too big too quickly and clearly and mistakingly it was felt that it would succeed on the strength of the licence alone. Certainly however, the machinations of Jowood didn't help the situation whatsoever.
It's about time the Australian games industry, barring a few notable and worthy exceptions, became a whole lot more professional, serious and competitive(particularly at a management level) otherwise Ratbag and Perception certainly won't be the last studios we see implode over the coming year.
I believe MF are currently ramping up. After a few lean years the veterans are still with us, and maybe it goes to show that companies who treat the industry as a marathon and not a sprint will survive in the long term.
Good luck to everyone here.
I have to agree with PBs reasoning that management is squarely to blame for this F.U.B.A.R.
I am actually quite surprised how many people tend to agree with this reasoning, especially ex-Perception staff. Ben is to blame for this, I have meet the guy on a few occasions, but though I could tell he had some ability business-wise, I just new this guy would play at being lead-designer and slowly but surely bury the project - in a game development / design capacity he struck me as being a complete moron.
Hope you guys aren't too burned from the experience. I tend to think that you can learn the most from your bad experiences rather from the good ones. Just keep an eye out for more of Ben's type in the future - which unfortunately you will find are in dominance in Australia at the moment, but seeing how they are f*ck-ups, will hopefully not be for long ;).
What happen?
Was there a guy there who can't work in a team?
Or is the game play crap?
I'm uncertain if the studio was shut-down as well, but I don't think Ben should be allowed to run another studio or head a project in game development ever again. That way we don't ever have another repeat of what has happened, though it is hard to believe that anyone would be stupid enough to ever give them funding again - though with my experiences with the local industry, I am sure it will happen :/.
I guess too the artwork and designs I did for the game belong to MGM now (wondering about this) so I'm afraid there'll be no posting of my work for SG-1 The Alliance here or on my own site.
Wouldn't the assets still belong to Perception or (gasp) JoWood? Granted, they can't do anything with most of it, other than maybe sell it off to MGM.
Damn, more loss for the Australian industry. Guess any of us who wanted to play this game will just have to watch the SG-1 episode that featured footage from it and imagine.
What happen?
somebody set up us the bomb.
My Two cents to this:
I think the timing has been completely misjudged for the release of such a huge franchised title. Its came before its time.
Xbox 360 is already out, PS3 is on the verge of being released. People are being wowed and awed by boggling graphical capability of games that are being released or worked on for 360 / PS3.
2 out of 3 target platforms are graphically inferior machines. And despite what many people say and think - graphics do sell games. This isnt to say the artwork is subpar - quite the opposite - I think whats been done is fantastic graphically.
But for sheer wow factor - a PS2 and XBOX release right before the big launches of next generation consoles just seems like its missed the boat.
I dont think that such a huge franchise would be willing to play second fiddle.
Perhaps Stargate will be rebirthed at a later more appropriate date.
My rambling thoughts....
More thoughts....
In case I didnt describe myself too well, Basically such a huge franchise and license would go bonkers on xbox360 and PS3 - simply because its Stargate and its Xbox360 and PS3.
Even though its sounds rediculous, its really the only thing I can possibly think of for anyone to pull the plug on something thats practically finished.
Or taking it a step further down the conspiracy theory lane - perhaps it was left until the game was finished for exactly that reason.
" Here Developer X, take this finished version and make it even better, we want XBOX360 and PS3, the game is all there - just spec it up to suit the new consoles "
I can just see some money man saying something like this.
I can see something like that Haz, but, I don't think it can all be sowed up into an easy to deal with explanation rather than facing the reality of it. This game was a great opportunity, ball, that was dropped by the developer. Sure we can say that JoWood and MGM had a hand in this, but only when it was too late and they have given Perception the chance to pick it up and cross the finishing line - what did you expect JoWood and MGM to do exactly, sit back and do nothing?
This game took too long to develop and reach an adequate level of quality for the XBOX and PS2 - due to the developer's inexperience with a project of such scope. Maybe MGM decided to let the deal run out of time as avoiding the effects of next-gen was too late, and it would be far more beneficial to rework for an X360 and PS3 release - I was thinking that Perception should be doing this when I heard the news in regards to JoWood, as they just didn't have enough time to release for the current-gen with next-gen on the near horizon.
But if Perception were any good, it would have been wiser I think if MGM had Perception to re-envision / work the project for those platforms. Obviously they did not think they were up to it, and perhaps have decided to look for another developer to do that instead - I don't think it is as nearly as finished as some would like to believe it is.
I just hope the guys that worked on stuff like art get mentioned in the Credits, and if the game does go ahead with another developer, I would fight to have my name in the credits due to the work I put in.
Anyway what I am saying is: face reality, and stop looking for a solution folks that makes the situation easier to deal with - sometimes it is quite simply the developer's fault, and by that I mean management.
My mind just wanders sometimes into possibilities, often looking for, as you say, an easy to deal with explanation ;)
Ultimately, I'm in complete agreeance - no fault can lie with the workers at the bottom of the chain thats for sure - unless none of them did what they were told !
Also as fan mentioned earlier I'd like to think that while many would walk away duped and totally destroyed - I'm sure it will be an experience they wont forget, and hopefully from their own viewpoints - take away some valuable lessons on how not to develop a game.
All the best to the guys out there that worked their asses off only to be kicked in the teeth.
Dont look back - Onward to bigger and better things.
Hazard, I think I have to disagree with almost everything you said :). First of all, your view that the game was "practically finished" is as delusional as the managements assessments of the situation. It wasn't even close. There's a lot more to a finished game than nice screenshots.
Your claim that Stargate + nextgen would go bonkers is also questionable. Stargate is a mainstream license, its appeal is that with it you can sell games to an audience beyond the hardcore gamers. These are not people who will be running out and buying new consoles at release prices as soon as they come out. There are tens of millions of PS2 and Xbox owners out there and they will continue to buy games. People talk about nextgen as if it will cause all the old consoles to just vanish.
There is an easy to deal with explanation - Perception were unable to complete this project. The problems with JoWooD and MGM were a direct result of the lack of progress. If they had been able to get it right everyone would've made a few bucks and gone home happy. It wasn't MGM's fault, nor was it JoWooD's. The fault rests entirely with the management of Perception.
Ben from Perception and Ben from Melbourne sound eerily similar...
If you pick up a box of Heroes of the Pacific, the back of the box says "Copyright (C) Ben Palmer" or something like that, IR Gurus doesn't actually hold the rights to the intellectual property of Heroes, Ben does. Interesting.
PB : Whilst I wont argue that theres more to a game than some nice screenshots, I would hope that 24 months worth of a large studios work would be pushing the game far closer toward the end of things being finished than not. That is what I probably should have said.
And if it came across as my 'claiming' that Stargate + Next Gen would go bonkers, it was not meant to read that way, apologies. - Im merely expressing how some money man might see the situation, Of course I have no evidence to backup my words - but from my experience I definately wouldnt put it past them.
People do talk as if the old consoles will vanish even though it is not the case and it is worthwhile to keep on developing for them for a while yet - I most certainly have no immediate plans to buy a next-gen console, but prefer to wait for the hype and deceit to be replaced with fact and real first-hand impressions. But, publishers are ramping up next-gen development whist slowly bringing current-gen to a close, even if the likes of Sony for instance are still trying to push the PS2 as a viable platform - you can thank MS for that and their push to get the X360 out the door ASAP.
Back when JoWood tried to wrestle control of the title out of Perception's hands, I guesstimated that there was around 8-12 months of work needed to get the title shipped to an adequate level of quality - not just graphics, not just tech, but gameplay (design). In fact I think that is still the case even today, another studio would still need to put in 8-12 months to get it ready for the current-gen - probably the same to port it to next-gen. Back then with that time-scale, I think it would have been worthwhile due to publishers' push to start focusing on next-gen, to do just that and basically port it across to next-gen - like the X360.
At this point with the work I think a developer would still need to do to get it ready to ship, there would be no reason to focus on current-gen. Even though there is a much larger "market-share" for current-gen consoles, there are aslo a hell of a lot of titles to play, some of them are very good and are also very cheap - like S20-40 for a clearance or second-hand title at EB. I am not talking about a piece-of-sh*t either, but a title that would probably have the same quality in gaming experience as Stargate would, perhaps better, only these titles are near the end of the shelf life-cycle.
Next-gen on the other hand has few titles out for it, and if you can get a decent and high-profile licensed title out on say the X360, early, then you may find you make more than on both the XBOX and PS2 combined - not that I condone rushing out a title to cash-in on being an early release for a platform, nor do I think that you can release any old sh*t on next-gen early and expect it to do well.
For the record, though I liked the movie a lot, I don't like the TV series at all, but I can see that a lot of people do, therefore I can see the worth of such a license. It is a "mainstream" license, and I think would appeal not only to non-hardcore gamers but also to hardcore gamers - especially if there are few good titles out on next-gen. If you released for current-gen, where as I may be convinced to buy it for the X360 at the moment, I wouldn't piss on it for XBOX - there are far better games out there that are more original and innovative than I suspect this title would have been, and I think a good deal of people would perhaps agreed with me, especially those that are taking advantage of the effects of next-gen on current-gen title prices for older titles.
That is my reasoning (rant) for focusing on next-gen over current-gen - though how "correct" all of it is depends a lot upon context, as it is different for every title.
Though I suppose with backwards compatibility, you could always buy XBOX games for your X360 as well, which would impact how well the game would sell - though why buy an X360 if not to play X360 games? Otherwise you'd stick with your XBOX right?
cynical & hazard you both talk but what the hell do you know about the current situation? nothing at all. leave the discussion to the ex-employees and those in the know thanks. your rampant speculation just seems STUPID next to posts by guys who have actual inside information.
seems everybody is an expert. sheesh =p
Buddy, I predicted that this was going to happen early 2004 - whilst you were thinking: "Wow, I'm working on Stargate, no way this game will get cancelled or suck!". I don't give a f*ck whether you care for my opinion or not ;).
I have learned to trust my own judgement, especially as it is probably more objective than your own - not to mention I wager that I have more insight and depth to mine, as I haven't had my head up my arse.
I don't have to be an "insider" to know the failings of Perception and Stargate - I've seen it all before, and I am sure I will see it all again :D.
Opinions are like assholes......
Wow, that crushed my fragile ego, I'll never post here again, you idiot :D.
Ahhh, CynicalFan... The Sideshow Raheem of Sumea...
That's actually funny.
blah blah blah: I clearly stated my speculation was in fact, just that, speculation.
Whether my oppinion matters to someone else or not is irelevant, I merely express my views to generate discussion, sometimes pointless and unnecessary I agree ;) but I'm prepared to reap any reprocussions for my babble.
Being an employee at perception doesnt automatically grant you 'in the know' status either.
Perhaps because I was involved with Stargate for 5 months, I might be considered to have 'inside information' , so according to you my comments must now be relevant.
What get to me is that apparently unless you worked on the title or were "in-the-know" - how one is supposed to be just that wasn't made clear - you aren't allowed to post a comment in a public site / forum.
I thought anyone could post here, that is what it is for after all - if you don't like then don't visit the site and don't read the comments ;).
to create a failure like this it needs more than one fault. The worst decisions were done at the start of the project. Since then the game struggled.
There is still no in depth game design. Things have been redone over and over again. If you are on a tight schedule you can't afford to redo things so you better think about it a bit longer and do it right in the first place.
A lot of the staff was inexperienced. Without a quality control and a direction from the management everyone just did what they thought may be the right thing.
The unreal engine was choosen but instead of using existing code as much as possible the wheel was reinvented most of the times. Sometimes the same feature was created in three different ways. There is a huge amount of script code in the current version of the game.
There is no team play in the company. Only a few people talk to others about their stuff. Everyone works for himself. People were pushed to create content in a hurry because of a lack of time. Just to find out that it had to be redone when it was too late. That's not exactly how you save time.
People mismatch quality with complexity. Most of the times the simple way is the best way. You just need to find it.
JoWood didn't care about the project at all. They were only worried about their share price which was sinking fast. They never supported Perception or did anything good for the game.
In Summer 2005 I was hoping to someone gets in charge with enough experience in the game industry to sort out the mess. It didn't happen. There is a big difference between being a good worker and being a good lead.
Stargate was too big for this company.
Nice post, rings with the truth. Thanks for sharing your honest opinion of the project with us. I hope people see it for what it is and chose to learn from it and your example :).
Using the Unreal engine on the PS2 and then wanting to make a game of this size on it was also quite unwise. Its just too slow and too memory hungry, and the people that ported it to PS2 in the first place weren't exactly the most skillful engine coders around.
And I still disagree with you Haz, Most of the 24 months were spent moving in the wrong direction. They failed milestones for almost a year before JoWooD finally pulled out (and yet people still seem to want some conspiracy theory to explain it).
I'm a big gate fan and an avid pc player so I was looking forward to this title immensely, around the net the rumors and anger are going against MGM, but reading here it seems plain as day that the studio was being run like MANY many young companies with weak management. Teams and projects without well thought out leadership, plans and execution are almost always destined to fail no matter how hard they try, what I've read here I see often... I'm a PM myself, I'm sorry to see a lot of hard work and what seems to be talented guys get the shaft in this, on top of my real disapointment the game is shelved. The comments about the lack of communication internally are alarming, I would have thought this thing would have caved even earlier in light of the disastrous mismanagement picture that was painted!
Good luck devs, keep on trucking.
It's all to easy to say that only Management are to blame, when really....all parties are responsible here. Management DID make a lot of bad mistakes, espeically in planning out the milestones long before the programming team had a chance discover exactly what was going on with the Unreal Engine, especially on the PS2.
But then there's the lack of dedication from many staff members. The staff themselves promoted a very "them & us" attitude, and anybody who didn't agree with thier point of view was an enemy sympathyser. I witnessed a certain lead get stabbed in the back many times, because he didn't quite see things as purely black & white on both sides. I wonder how many of you witnessed the arguments and discussions he had with Management on your behalf, or did you simply not care because he didn't follow the flock?
You can blame management as much as you want, but everybody was a contributing factor in this. From CB sleeping at his desk (if he turned up for work at all) to the really bad choices made by Management at the projects inception.
Now excuse me, I need to go find a job.
I agree, there was no accountability at any level, but the Management are overwhelmingly responsible for the failure of this project. I do remember many times witnessing the PS2 Lead arguing with management, and here's the thing, he had more experience in the Games industry than the Project Manager and the CEO combined (as did most of the staff come to think of it) and they NEVER LISTENED TO HIM, worse than that they treated him appallingly and did not afford him any of the respect his knowledge and experience warranted and then wondered why he resigned.
Many, many issues and problems were raised with Management and rather than trying to solve them, they either ignored them or went on the defensive and denied that they existed. I think a lot of us just gave up in the end.
Personally I think the single biggest mistake of this project was made right at the very beginning, the hiring of a Project Manager who had so little experience he had never actually produced a title before. He was way out of his depth and simply lacked the knowledge and experience a role like that demands. In addition his absolutely appalling communication and people skills put many staff members offside. Remember when he went away for four weeks on his honeymoon just before Alpha (now that's dedication for you) they were probably the four most productive weeks of the entire project, morale improved, and it almost seemed like we were working for a real games studio.
I really can't fathom any reasons why he was hired (apart from the fact that he was an old friend of the HR Manager) and that decision shows the inexperience of the CEO, who in turn lacked any real business experience apart from running a failed arcade machine business.
Wow....there seems to be lots of "we know how to make a good developer work and Perception management don't" going on here. While the basic idea is nice, the reality is a little bit different though.
I agree that a lot of mistakes were made by management, especialy at the conception of the project. From what I know, originaly there wasn't going to BE a game designer or even a project manager! So you can only imagine the scheduling shenanigens that went on to get the deal signed before the console version had even been thought about.
The project was 18 months of pure hell for me, and that's not just because of the many late nights and weekends I put in. While I don't believe that management were completely blind to the situation we were in (I feel they were very aware of the issues brought to them by staff); for various reasons there was a real lack of action on the parts of management AND staff, and this includes me.
JoWood's actions were also a major contrinuting factor. The complete lack of input when it came to feedback on milestones, a refusal to allow time to fix the many technical issues that the PS2 SKU and the many contratcual infringements were a big player in the direction of the project.
It's a real shame that Perception has gone bust like this. I hope everybody is okay, and finds work in the near future. If not, I suggest a move to another country where there's a bigger and more mature job market for your skills :)
And there is the punch-line: more talent contemplating and probably leaving for international waters due to a local studio's incompetence.
I wonder what other "greater" effects all this has had on the local industry...
you get the fame or you get the blame. In this case you get the blame.
About 30-40"(percent) of the team were from Australia, with the rest (including myself) coming from various parts of the world after promises of loose women, beatiful beaches, cold beer and being part of dynamic and growing games industry!
Atleast the beer was cold.
To coward #41 - your suggestion that the staff formed some kind of worldview and then branded anyone who disagreed as a traitor is pretty silly. I openly disagreed with the conventional wisdom that "there isn't enough time" and nobody did anything except tell me that they think I'm wrong.
The staff itself wasn't a united block either, the very split opinions between coders and level designers regarding Unreal being the most obvious example. The lead you mention certainly had a minority opinion, but so what? That doesn't mean people saw things in black and white or thought of him as the enemy (well OK, maybe some drama queens saw it that way, but most didn't), they just had different opinion.
As for CB, I personally think that he and the two ARs produced just about the only production quality work in the whole project. Even if he had shown up everyday, worked his ass off, etc, it wouldn't have caused the game to fit into memory or made it stable.
So now you have another issue that divides the staff. Some want to keep hammering away in the hope that they can overcome the poor decisions and get a game out the door. Others are convinced that its a pointless exercise and stop caring (or even showing up). Of course the former group are going to be resentful towards the latter, they might even assign some of the responsibility onto them.
In my opinion, most of the staff stopped caring long after the project had gone beyond the point of no return. Or to put it another way, if they had all been totally professional all the way to the end the game still would've failed.
BEEER!
TEN YEARS AND NO GAMES PUBLISHED.
But hot damn, I have a mighty fine beer gut.
PB - Given the abuse directed towards the person in question at the pub, I'd have to disagree with you there. It's interesting to note that nobody would dare say it to his face though.
As for CB; this is a subject best left alone. I could get very....personal.
I think for you to say that even if most of the staff were pulling in the same direction, nothing would have changed is simply not true. Just see the progress made in a four week period when the PS2 team was allowed to focus on fixing the problems.
I still believe that the game could have gotten out of the door, even after the loss of several key members of staff. If everybody had atleast tried to pull in the same direction and had cared (how many times did we run out of memory because somebody checked in a PC texture to the PS2 build and then acted as if it wasn't thier fault they messed up?) I think we could have gotten something out of the door.
That's interesting that you're talking about saying things to people's faces when you won't even say who you are. Its also wrong, I recall CB going at it with him face to face at the pub for example.
As for things getting personal, how personal can it get when you won't even reveal your name? Post anonymously by all means, but leave the tough talk at the door if you do so.
Focusing on problems like "someone checked in the wrong texture" as the reason the game wouldn't fit in memory is exactly the kind of thinking that doomed the project. Big deal, replace it with the right texture, smack whoever did it and move on.
The problem was that it was all being built on a rickety foundation. Problems were dealt with in isolation. We'd have a meeting, brainstorming ideas to reduce the memory footprint. Ok, lets compress some stuff. Now the game runs slow. Have another meeting about that. Put some tables into memory instead of calculating them, that will make it faster, and use memory, and back to square one.
Management were presented with a plan to fix the memory, speed and stability problems and they decided to keep going the way they were. The result was totally predictable. But it was much easier for them to live with the explanation that "the game ran out of memory because the wrong texture was checked in".. BS! The code is coming apart at the seams and needs some drastic surgery.
Hey thanks #49 for your wisdom and inside information, however did "u" find out all this stuff?
Just how long does it take to issue a statement officially declaring the projects death ?
No, I think I'll keep my anominimity thanks.
I remember a certain little incident very well at the pub. There was nothing about the leads opinions or character that came up in that little discussion, but I do remember him questioning CB's. I remember it so well, since it was pretty out of character for him to be so openly angry with non-management.
I seem to remember the code getting some serious surgery with the replacement of a certain rendering engine, which gave us nothing more than a whole heap of rendering bugs, un-implemented features and something which ran EVEN SLOWER in missions which used terrain than the original! We still had animation bugs, and a lot of other memory issues which were never fixed by this wonderful surgery and yet the PS2 lead had the gaul to defend this desicion,
But to be fair...the fabled four weeks of productivity did see what was was left of the PS2 coding team focus on these problems, and actually fix a lot of them. You weren't there at that point pb; I wonder if this progress had anything to do with people actually doing thier job, instead of bitching about the Unreal Engine every five minutes?
Yeah, if I were you I'd stay anonymous too...
Care to name some (or any) of these rendering bugs and unimplemented features? Want to give an example of a mission that ran slower (remembering of course that the original engine didn't actually bother rendering all the terrain layers and had no decals at all).
Want to explain why the PS2 lead defended the decision? Perhaps you might even enlighten us as to why the decision wasn't reversed? Or how about explaining how much memory the textures and geometry data took up with the original renderer?
I know you still had animation bugs... Guess which renderer was doing the animation? And why on earth you think that fixing a broken renderer was going to stop unrelated code from using too much memory I have no idea.
Finally your claim that these things were fixed during this amazing four week period during which time people did their job is obviously false as demonstrated by the final outcome.
Just been alerted to the crap going on here by a friend. I think since I'M BEING DISCUSSED so much, I should speak for myself.
@Coward 41
Do yourself a favour pal, and quit this nonsence, We don't really need you to air out all of our dirty laundry in public (that is, if there's any truth to what you say, which seriously doubt), and as pb says; if you will do it, atleast tell us all who you are.
As for this "back-stabbing" bit, give it up. I never heard about any of this and found that everybody was quite happy to tell me exactly what they thought. I realise that my opinions weren't always exactly popular, but I like to think people can seperate the person from that sort of thing. "Deeds, not words" as the old saying goes.
And this "fabled four weeks" you speak of only happened, because we were allowed to focus on something for longer than a few days! None of this changing direction every 36 hours to make way for the boss's latest favorite mission which meant we were having to fix technical issues AND cater to mission specific tasks.
Like PB I often questioned the viability of the Unreal Engine, and this was especially true at the start of the PS2 project when I realised just how bad it was. I asked the powers at be if we were stuck with this engine, as it was only going to cause us a lot of problems further down the line. The answer was "this is what we're using, get used to it". And thus spake Zathustra.
It was a dire choice of technology and we tried to make the best of it, but like pb says; it was falling apart at the seams and needed a lot of major work. But we were never given the time for this, and when an elternative sollution was presented to managment, I knew it would be rejected outright as it was a little high risk, and they believed the Unreal Engine was just fine for the job.
But it wasn't. Not even close. We all worked dammed hard, many of us constantly pulling very long nights and weekends. I remember a 21 day sretch of 14 hour days and weekends where I had to simply say "I'm having the next two days off and if you don't like it, it's too bad". The project was nothing but firefighting, and as much as we tried to be more pro-active about problems; management attitude, schedule demands, the sheer crapness of the UE, and the fact that we're just mere humans who could only work under certain conditions to a certain point hindered us a great deal in doing so.
If only we were all as super-human as you #41.
But to be fair pb...both of us weren't at Perception in the end, so we've no idea how far it had come along in the time since we had left. So to say that "it was nowhere near completion" is pretty speculative :)
All I can say is if the final 12 months were in fact anything like the account that's been given here then I'm even more thankful that my contract concluded last January and I secured work with a great and highly professional studio on an awesome project, which has a clear and bold vision, even if it did mean having to leave Australia. There were worrying signs and developments even during my time there.
I only hope my friends at Perception work and soon. A great number of talented people worked there although I believe a great many of them had sensibly already left before this sad but unsurprising development. As for those out of their depths in the industry (not pointing any fingers) perhaps they need to ponder whether the games industry is really for them.
I for one realise how much work went into this thing, i mean int he end, the unreal engine isnt what you guys shoul've been using, after all a lot of mod teams use it, you should've had your own engine or something better.
Obviously, from screenshots, a LOT of work went into the game. And i applaud you all at Perception, to be quite honest i think that a game of a highly rated sreies like Sg1 should've been given to a well established Development team, the likes of THQ or Bungie, but Perception made the best out of a bad deal, and made it good.
It would sound as if there is a split opinion going on here between different people, in my view, regardless of what is going on i would still wish to see the game finished and published, even if some features "something of a norm in the industry" are removed or even left dormant in the game. there has to be away to save what work was done and not only make a buck but also make the fans happy, as it stands right now alot of people, "employee's, business and fans" are going to end up the loosers here:( i know i feel a loss with the news.
"But to be fair pb...both of us weren't at Perception in the end, so we've no idea how far it had come along in the time since we had left."
There's been _some_ progress.
PS2 framerate is decent now - not ready for release, but pretty solid at around 20fps most of the time. Somehow the lone remaining PS2 coder managed to double the framerate, which can't have been easy.
Gameplay finally had some attention, and the levels ready for demonstration to MGM are solid (if stock run and gun), with the AI (Jaffa and SG-1) properly using cover, and caning you if you tried to be rambo.
As of the last tests you could play through almost the entire game start to finish on all 3 SKUs (with plenty retries because of crashes or broken scripts).
No, it's not ready for release, but at least it stopped going sideways rather than forward, eh? I honestly don't know how far from release the game was, but it was approaching being fun to play.
Wow what a storm!
All I can say is that although what has happened is sad and I wish the project had made it on the shelves Im still glad for my time at perception as I got to meet a lot of great people which I'm sure will have no problem finding jobs elsewhere.
Personally I think the root of the problem lay in a there being 3 skews.
For a start up company having to hire a complete team and deliver a AAA title on PC PS2 and XBox is a MASSIVE task. There a production pipelines that have to be created, internal management systems to be put in place and many other things that an established company doesnt have to deal with. I think perception under estimated the sheer size of the project and because of this many mistakes were made.
I think the downfall of the company was sacking an employee for buying beer on a friday avo. BAD BAD karma. oo boy.
But thats another story.
"But to be fair pb...both of us weren't at Perception in the end, so we've no idea how far it had come along in the time since we had left."
That's a fair comment, but I think we both knew that whatever they might do they would eventually hit the "plenty retries because of crashes or broken scripts" problem. The seriousness of this sort of thing seems to be often overlooked when in fact it can be the source of limitless losses as you try to patch up the sinking ship.
You get so very very close, but no matter what you do, it still crashes. You resort to just moving things around, making arbitrary changes, following bizarre rituals of loading, exporting, converting, its game development by voodoo and it almost never works, especially, on something this big. (Although sometimes it works by chance, just because so many people try it)...
Plus bad beer karma is a real bad thing when you're using voodoo to make your game...
Too true,
actually I have a vivid memory of asking Ben what happens if doing something as stupid as firing me for buying a carton of beer for the staff causes people to resign, his reply? "Let them"
Thus began the great Staff exodus of 2005, and 9 months later here we are...TaaDaa!!
There were other CB's in the office so I think you should be careful who you are referring to. It could cost someone in question a job :(
hey BH I remember telling Ben the same thing. When the opportunity came up to move on I didn't have to think twice.
I agree with the Bad Beer Karma. Though I think we can go further back to a certain Tuesday night. You can trace everything else from there. Let this be a warning to other game companies down under - don't diss the Beer gods.
Hehehe, this is becoming the Perception chat list all over again, I just need to move my debate with Unit over to this section and we're back in action... Plus we might figure out who Coward #41 is by process of elimination :)
what was in post #49 for it to be cut and for pb to mention it???? Pleeeeease tell me!!!!!!!!!!
this is better than any reality tv! cept maybe for Average Joe when she actually picked the average Joe!
Anyone know what happens to the poor people that paid upto 3grand to get their faces in the game?
#65, that message was removed because it was nothing more than trolling with swear words.
... as opposed to most of the other posts here, which are trolling without swear words.
Just discovered this so I'll add my humble oppinion; I expect many heated heads to reply aggressively, as that seems to be the way of dealing with the truth down here in these parts.
To be blatantly outright and honest, from my experience, this outcome is far from uncommon though I will say, the things that shocked me having visited a lot of the studios in AU is this.
1) Are you ashamed of appearing equal to your status?
95"(percent) of all studios I visited (some on more than one occasion) were large groups of people, hiding in tiny / messy cubicles with headphones on. Busy bees maybe, but where is the interaction / where was the creative atmosphere??
Every face I looked at looked back with a blank, hollow stare that undead might find provocative.
Some of the studios where quality looking establishments but what is a fancy V8 engine without smooth performance oil. Some had multiple basketball court sized 'meeting' rooms that never looked used. Some even had tennis courts and gyms.
Even spending half to an entire day at some studios these facilities and floor space weren't used. Great allocation of resources guys! Your establishment looks tops to the average Joe, but any keen eye will see right through the pea-fowl like display to what really matters: Are you really professionals or is it just all smoke and mirrors?
If it is smoke and mirrors, why? You've got nothing to gain and everything to loose.
Your trying to come in at the top, where is the sense in this?
Tell me, where do you go from there? How do you advance, where are the surprises for the team to keep them energetic and in a sense of mind that "together we are succeeding", "Together we are going places" ???
Why not start in a place that's more suiting your stature and budget and focus on getting projects out the door and moving forward as a complete unit, slowly climbing up and EARNING your status.
There's nothing more exciting than being a part of a studio that moves to a new premises, gets upgraded equipment, gets visits and talks by game developer greats, entry admissions to E3 or GDC - A reward system that suits the budget and stature of your studio.
No one likes grinding in an MMORPG if there is little reward or encouragement to succeed - why the hell would you assume this is any different in reality?
Its scary to think that the grunts are really where the magic happens and that the success / failure of the project is essentially in their hands. Leads and managers if your even half decent at your jobs you should know "your team is everything and without them your project is nothing"
2) Where for art thou self respect?
I would say a good 90"(percent) of the employees I met and talked to are scruffy dressed, beer drinking idiots who'd rather play or talk about games than create them. When asked "what are you doing after work?" I'm sad to report that almost all replied either "goin' down the pub mate" or "play some CS / WOW"
Fine choices - for an average wage, bum lifestyle human being.
Poor choices - for a champion / leader OR the future of game development AU.
I must admit there are a few diamonds in the rough - not all Australians game developers I know of are slackers - some in fact are exactly the opposite and would even hold their own with some of the hardiest of Korean and US developers I've met.
These are the people that somehow, in amongst their infinitely busy lives, still manage to create a piece of work for the greater good, to develop their skills, to give something back to the community.
They know who they really are too - they won't have to even think about it.
You'll see them pop up from time to time and leave specks of gold advice.
You'll notice that after looking, they are actually working for UBISOFT, NCSOFT, Blizzard or Bioware or have moved on and upward from where you thought they were before in job title or in company.
They aren't afraid of exploring new techniques, they relish the opportunity to further their knowledge, branching out, devoting their lives to perfecting their skills in whatever it may be. Often they achieve this, living full lives, having families, hobbies, never quite being satisfied with what they've got but always forging onwards regardless.
These people don't talk about doing something you'll just hear about it after its complete.
I could go on forever but the bottom line from my perspective as someone who's traveled and been fortunate enough to have worked in a few studios all over the world - from dodgy setups to elite architecturally designed oasis' ) The main contrast is simply this and it applies to everyone from management / owners right through to the workers at the bottom tier:
* Loose the unprofessional attitudes and lifestyles, adopt a professional approach to your chosen career. A key element in this is Time Management - something it seems, so few of you have even reached a novice level of understanding in.
* A majority of you aren't great, hell, your not even good, so loose the ego, pipe down, get off MSN and focus on the task you've been assigned.
*Your a cog in a wheel, your job is to fit into that wheel and ensure its smooth centrifugal movement. Remember you're part of a team, a living breathing unit who is relying and depending on your skills for success. You are not fighting for a better position / trajectory to drive your tongue deeper into the crack of your superior in hope of getting more money / perks and less responsibility.
* Managers / Owners / Leads: You set the bar, if you're sloppy, MAN-UP and step down for the sake of the team and the project. If you can't deal with the situation and responsibility you shouldn't be there. You are the direction, you are the guidance, and your team is working with you to learn from you as much as they can.
Leads, you are directly responsible for your teams behavior, performance, attitude and overall level of happiness.
Owners and Managers you are directly responsible for setting the standards and defining the boundaries and parameters from which within your leads will complete the task - You are most likely NOT game developers so back the hell away and let the people you have hired do their jobs.
* The higher up the ladder the more responsibility. Managers and leads should be the first in the morning and the last to leave at night. If you can't meet this expectation, your not worthy of the job. Step down, Grunt.
*Grunts, respect your superior - he's there for a reason. It's because he's more experienced than you, he's been doing your job for longer than you have and he is your mentor, your guidance. He will answer to all of your questions.
If your superior for any reason doesn't meet these basic requirements - then ask yourself "Am I really working for a professional company? Is this company going to help me develop my skills to a point where someday I could be working along side masters? "
If your just looking to make some cash and like to play games, BUGGER OFF we don't need your kind in this industry, you'll be much more suited to a job at the 7 / 11, though I suspect your customer services skills would be laughable, so maybe a forklift driver or something equally mind numbing.
Remember kids,
Honor, Respect, Understanding, Balance and Simplicity.
A stimulating post with an honest appraisal of the local industry.
Steve? Steve, is that you?
65, Tell me a game studio that doesn't have it's a large of hardcore WOW players (or whatever game is currently popular), and feel free to name a sutrdio where messy cubicles, and scruffy be-headphoned team members aren't commonplace?
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"I expect many heated heads to reply aggressively, as that seems to be the way of dealing with the truth down here in these parts.."
Wooah, lost your luggage on the way to Australia did we? Had a lunch that didn't agree with you perhaps during oe of your extensive tours of the studios of Australia?
It seems jusding by your opening remark it's not just the studios you hold in low esteem but the nation as a whole. Generalising a little aren't we? Now here's MY humble opinion - no matter how valid your arguments might be, resorting to gross generalisations tends to undermine whatever you might be saying.
Still in spite of the generalisations, and in spite of your rather pompous, condascending attitude, you do make a number of valid points. that anyone working in the games industry regardless of where in the world they might be.
I'll add my 2 cents. Labelling people 'cogs in the wheel' and grunts doesn't exactly instill them with a sense of pride or commitment to the team or project - it doesn't exactly bring out the best in people. How about seeing them as valued team members, dependent and reliant upon one another. Nor does it foster initiative, the drive to excel particularly when the leads (or superiors as you put it) aren't up to scratch.
Oh and for your information, Although Australian I am working overseas on a leading AAA title, and tho not a lead, I work closely with the Art director in all aspects.
"I would say a good 90"(percent) of the employees I met and talked to are scruffy dressed, beer drinking idiots who'd rather play or talk about games than create them. When asked "what are you doing after work?" I'm sad to report that almost all replied either "goin' down the pub mate" or "play some CS / WOW"
Fine choices - for an average wage, bum lifestyle human being.
Poor choices - for a champion / leader OR the future of game development AU."
This I take offense too, and I don't understand the relevance. So what if after work I want to head down to the pub for a few drinks - over dinner with mates, while watching some sport, or even to go clubbing on a Friday?
So what if i feel like a lazy night at home and i want to simply play games or watch TV?
I do all of these things and i do them because I enjoy them. They have no detrimental impact to my work, and certainly don't make me any less professional. Who are you to tell me what I SHOULD be doing for enjoyment outside of work? Perhaps you could suggest some more WORTH WILD leisure activities?
#74: because the real champions work on their own projects at home, after they come home from work!
Well, I try to get in a bit fo that aswell, but I do so much enjoy oing things OTHER than what I do all day at work. As much as I enjoy making games, I do have other interestes aswell.
To add to what has been written by Livewire here Anonymous Coward, rather than writing extensive treatises on how the games industry in Australia should behave then waiting for someone to respond shouldn't you heed some of your own advice and polish those skills of your's?
To quote: "A majority of you aren't great, hell, your not even good, so loose the ego, pipe down, get off MSN (or in this case sumea perhaps?) and focus on the task you've been assigned"
And: "because the real champions work on their own projects at home, after they come home from work"
Unless of course writing your long-winded opinions on messages boards is what you're good at. Certainly seems like you've been putting in some practice.
Sorry, I should clarify. While I believe a great deal of what you wrote is valid, your pompous, self-important, over-bearing, derogatory, and overly generalising tone and manner has I'm afraid really rubbed me up the wrong way.
This from a guy who has just worked 12 hour shifts almost every day for the past 2 weeks (and does so on regular occasions) and yet still likes to listen to music at work and have the occasional beer to unwind.
I think part of the point of a generalisation is that it is a generalisation, and doesn't necessarily apply to everyone or not to the full extent. A generalisation is not meant to necessarily apply to everyone. And as for coming off pompous and condescending, well lots of people on here do, either because they are or because of the medium - getting your point across as politically correct via plain text can be very hard, one thing said in text can mean something entirely different said in person with body and facial language, tone of voice, etc.
I think the 12 hour-shift has gotten the better of you unit, and your jumping to conclusions perhaps ;).
perhaps it has CynicalFan. Still he doesn't sound like someone I'd want to have a beer with after work ;)
Well maybe he is and maybe he isn't. I don't agree with his comment a 100"(percent) but the points he made I found stimulated my brain into thought.
I think what may put many people off is the use of language or the meaning they have taken of various words or phrases. One word can have one meaning to someone, a slightly different one to anther, and a completely different one to anther - the same with phrases. It gets a bit more complicated when you put it in or out of context, then there is the context the reader is in - are they under pressure, whether from internal (work) or external (industry) sources, have they got past experiences that are still a bit too fresh, etc.
For instance "you're a cog in a wheel" could mean you are a sh*t-kicker and you should do what you are told and you will never get anywhere so stop dreaming loser, to one person. To another it could mean you have a function on the team, as does everybody else, you are a smaller part of a larger whole that is the team - chances are no single person "is" the team, each plays a part, even the leads. You have to learn to work together in order to succeed, as everyone working towards their own vision instead of a singular focused vision will not lead to success, but a lot of wasted potential. To do so you need to show respect to one another and communicate, whether they are part of your "caste" - for lack of a better word, meaning: designer, artist, coder, QA, production / management, etc - or part of another, whether they are your subordinate or whether they are your superior.
Anyway, something like that :)
Oh come on CF do you honestly believe the writer doesn't have enough of a handle on the English language to not know the connotations behind the words chosen?
Firstly #72: My name is irrelevant, as I do not see how this advances the situation nor increases or decreases the validity of my comments.
#73 : Unit - My apologies perhaps the generalization did come through 'a bit over-the-top' but nevertheless I stand by my words, as they are just that, a generalization. Tacky or not it's a good way to bring out the guilty as you'd really only feel compelled to respond if you feel like my comments where attacking you.
Again not all of you fit into my generalization there are always exceptions and Unit, your patriotism is admirable, you should be the least bit perturbed because I do know some of your work, some of what you've done for the locals and so on, and now look at you, you've up-rooted and left the shores of AU to find your roots dug firmly in another studio that more than likely has a much higher chance of success and you will continue on to do so. Keep doing what you're doing and continue to set a high example for others to follow, well done.
WOW & CS again another generalization, I think maybe my point here wasn't clear. The Pub and WOW / CS where the only things that brightened these 'developers' faces ie knock off time for beer or knock off time to play a game. What game is irrelevant, the point ultimately being you aren't a game developer anymore it's just a job, get out of this god forsaken place and relax.