Sumea Dev Team - post here if you want in

Getting people to do stuff for fun/no payment is hard. [:(] It would be great to have a Sumea themed community project happening though!

http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1898

sumea theme you say ;)

I'd probably be interested if we did...I have a mod going for Warhammer 40K so I'm certainly one to work on something I believe in (I've been working on it for nearly 2 years...but only a model of a marine, scout, terminator, dreadnought, half a Throne of Judgement and someone else's Rhino ingame to prove for it. www.ut40k.com if anyone is interested, or www.neomagination.com for the latest model renders)

If anyone need some material I have TONS of ideas for games/mods :) Ranging from a reality I have started to create from scratch to your normal game fare...

I'm still looking through these forums...I'll latch onto something soon no doubt :)

I'd like a project.. Something to keep me a bit focused.
I'm a little picky about what I do if I'm not getting paid for it though.

So I guess no one's interested then? SLACKERS!!

Well I am, as noted in my essay in the backflip thread :)

But it looks like getting something of that magnitude is quite tricky around here unless someone just says "OK, this is the mod! Do what you can!"

Then start making a lot of the competitions revolve around the mod perhaps :)

Therefore making the mod quite open ended could be a good thing. Another idea, and it's been done by various other groups, is to make a 'pack' that simply has a lot of stuff for a game engine. The Community Bonus Map Packs for UT2004 were very well recieved. Maybe we have a Sumea Character pack, vehicle pack, weapon pack or what have you. And base a competition off each?

That way, once we have the pack put together we can release it to the public for that element of recognition, but then you can also say you have worked in a community setting (with others) in order to get it all together...

Personally I think that would be pretty cool, expecially if we have a number of similarly themed elements (like characters) released as a little pack for people to play as. Much like a new species in UT2004.

And I REALLY would like to do my Tribe with beasts as 'driveable vehicles' idea...*wink wink, nudge nudge* :)

Yeah, maybe a Sumea themed mod might be the way to go. It would certainly be much easier then trying to develop a game from scratch. Or even if we just create a Sumea themed level with Sumea characters and props and stuff. But what the hell would a Sumea weapon look like? Or a Sumea character? Or even a Sumea level?

On the other hand, it would be hell cool to find an appropriate 3D engine and create something from scratch!

I think it would be cool to have as a community project ? kind of like pixel town, but far more in depth. It would involve a lot of planning and organisation to keep it together, and people would need to do what they say they will do or else we will be forever waiting for people to submit their bits and pieces (kind of like pixel town[;)]).

But personally I would love to be involved with something like this. I would probably be more use as a programmer then an artist (maybe), but I'd love to have a go at some of the art content (I find art so much more fun then programming). But I guess we need to first work out what we want to do, and then how to do it. Even if in the end it doesn?t work out, it would be a great exercise to attempt.

Discmage, you?ve made some good points. I think a project would need keen people like you to work. Keep the ideas coming [:)]

Hazard, your obviously interested in a sumea project. What would you suggest we do, and how should this be organised?

i think it would be wise to try our hand at a minimod first or a pack of similar content. And see how succesful that goes. After that , we can go for something a little bigger, like a mutator game type...and then after that perhaps an actual full fledged mod. If the first few levels do well.

I suggest for the first round we pick a theme (subject matter such as tribal, western, scifi, Sumea etc.), we pick a model base (character, weapons, level etc.), and we make a pack of some sort for an engine.

Personally I think the most popular engine with the best tech at this point would be UT2004. I find it a very good engine to make things for, and I know a lot about it if people need some help (I've written a tutorial on importing characters with default animations, and starting a more in depth one now). And it has amazing resources in regards to tutorials etc. The 3D buzz VTM's for instance.

So basically SOMEONE should say this, even if it IS me, to get the ball rolling. Sort of like a competition maybe, with the winners winning a can of coke :)

Also, to make it interesting, we do it in steps, so we learn things along the way. Programmers can do something similar in a mutator, gameplay type of sense...

Step / Competition #1 : Concept an Amazon (male or female)

Step / Competition #2 : Using the winning concept 'style' as a base, model your own Amazon. This way we keep at least a similar style across our little pack. This way people learn how to work with a given design brief, and the winner gets to 'lead design' peoples work as they go along.

Optional Step / Comp. 2.5 : Make a high poly version of the model in order to get a Normal map. (if we decide to shift engines, either way showing you can do normal mapping would look very impressive on your folio surely)

Step / Competition #3 : Map and texture your amazon (perhaps the lead designer (winner of step #1) makes a colour swatch we can all use as a base.

Step / Competition #4 : Either rig your model using the default animations, or import your own.

Step / Competition #3 : Import you model into the game engine, we pack em all up and make millions of dollars in royalties and fan money.

After that, we do a similar thing with the beast transports :) And, in essence, you have a tribal war ready to be made if you change some skins and make a cool mutator that does some neat things...or something. But you get the idea.

The benefits of this (somewhat lengthy) process would be considerable. It would show you can work to a brief, it can show you can do multiple things to some extent (modelling, mapping, texturing in particular are generally prerequisites for Game industry jobs) and each of our works gets boosted as a whole due to the fact it is a full pack, rather than one individual player model in a mass of other player models.

now, depending on timeline, I think the normal map idea would be wise as a thing to develop. It seems to be the 'next big thing' in gaming and we should all have a go at it. I 'think' half life 2 does normal maps, Farcry does and Unreal 3 engine most certainly does. if we get a head start on content, we could have a very sturdy release come release of either of those engines.

So yeah, start small, to build big. That's my theory. Making sure we do each step well so we have one really good piece (from concept to finish) to show potential employers.

Bah!! Souri ignored my post that said that I was interested.

:/

*stacks on Souri!*

Discmage is onto something here. Coming up with an idea to begin with.

Working for free isn't the only thing that a lot of people here are worried about. It is what the project will be about. It would be easier for an idea to be worked out and then say "Hey. Who wants to give a hand?". That way there won't be lot's of arguments as what is being done. A lot of people here have different views of what should be done, so trying to get two different opinions to design something may be very difficult. If an idea is placed forward, then people can decide from there.

Starting off simple is also a really good idea. Although we all like to attempt a new challenge, working across the entire of Australia via the net will be a big enough challenge. Anyone who has tried to complete a group assignment for any animation course will know what it is like :/

If a cool, well thought out idea was put forward, I would love to try to help. The idea of turning it into multiple comps is also quite cool. It will give people an incentive to keep on going to see their work progress further and further :)

Oh, and Discmage, make it a 390mL bottle of coke and you have a deal. It's just that you can screw the top back on the bottle and finish it later :)

im up for it, i aint the best artist around but id be happy to contribute :D

I have an idea for a game. [:0]

I'm a mod slave, give me a task to do and I'll give it my best shot.

Glad to see theres interest in something like this. Further to Discmage's comments, some in depth organisation would be necessary before something like this is to be started.

Idea's are cheap. Finding people to work on them for free is a bit harder. Finding people who will stick with the idea over a long period of time for free, is near impossible [:P]

So agreeing with Aven / Discmage's comments regarding starting small, is absolutely paramount.

The project needs to be simple and small, lets hear souri's idea! ( im curious ) [:D]

I think you could be onto something with your idea Discmage - although someone would need to have a master plan written out - to provide direction for all the modelling comps etc / but what about the programmers as well?

I think to create something that coders / artists can call their own would have greater appeal.

It maybe an idea to use the results for the 48 hour competition, and maybe having the winning entry as a platform to build on ?? that is of course if the entrants are willing to donate there entries for such a cause. [:)]

Just a thought.

Edit : Just adding that depending on the nature of the project, I would be happy to donate some of my free time.

...and I have many :)

I think we need to wite up a big list of potential MOD themes, and then break it backwards to get it down to sizeable chunks.

In my favourite case, once again, the tribal warfare with animal steeds with weapons. Breaking it down to tribe characters, then steeds, then static meshes etc. etc.

But I'm certainly open to other themes. If we spend the next day or so allowing people to post what they feel is a good idea, then we cut that down by listing them all and people voting by preference...and then the one with the highest general pririty is set as the end goal/theme. And we then start on the base elements from there :) So rememebr this is the end result, in case it all goes well and we actually get somewhere :) We can keep it going to a full release.

So, ones I have come up with so far include :
- Tribal warfare (with steeds with weapons instead of vehicles)
- Reality VS Cartoons
- Sci fi (World taken over by robots anyone?)
- Horror
- Fantasy (Wizards, warriors, mages etc with Dragons/griffons etc as vehicles both land and air :)
- Sumea (Now what on earth would a sumea theme be?!)
- Western
- Sci Fantasy (cross technology with fantasy)
- Mecha (humans using small to medium sized mechs as vehicles...COOL! Maybe the vehicles could transform?)
- Human body (FPS inside the body :)
- A social environment, rather than an FPS. We start building a small town and it's inhabitants with a really STRONG stylized look. (Think Warcraft, Feng Zhu) And REALLY make a Sumea town :) Then we can all hang out there instead of the chat room :)
- Think Grand Theft Auto Racing...need I say more :) I have a storyline for this type of game already if people are interested. Oh, and a peculiar twist to set it apart from normal racers.

Um, i think that's it for now. I better open it up to the floor :)

I really like Fluffy CatFood's idea of a 3d Sumea town (contributed piece by piece by the community), and I think a cartoon style Legend of Zelda/Wind Waker theme would rock.. and since Unreal Tournament 2004 has the best capability to shape the game into something we'd like, I reckon that would be the go too. What do you all think?

Gameply wise, I've had this idea for ages for an online Mario party kinda game. Imagine one map full of different hazards and puzzles that you have to get pass to reach the end.. There's platform jumping elements that require timing (think Mario 64), mazes (perhaps you can set some trigger to happen so that the blocks of the mazes can be placed randomly every round), racing areas (some placed vehicles and gun turrets at the beginning of the track so that you can aim at the other players drving ahead to slow them down etc. I wonder if it's possible so that the track is only passable by vehicle only. That would be great). The map is built so it's linear, you have to go through each of these parts. There's a power node after every 2 or 3 hazards and players can't sabotage the other team's node since the nodes aren't linked (I'll put up a diagram of the nodes so you get what I mean, but it's easily done in Onslaught mode with link editor)..

The multiplayer aspect - there are two teams, but the main idea is to encourage team co-operation.. perhaps there are ledges that need two players to get pass (one player to hop on top of another etc) or maybe a switch that needs to be pressed by a teammate that opens a door real quickly, just enough for the others to get through (of course it won't mean that they'll be left behind as the teammates that get through powers up the next spawn point). Another idea is to have vehicles that carry a few players over certain hazards/lakes, so someone would need to do some transporting for their team. Gun turrets are placed here too so that those waiting to be transported can shoot at the other teams carrier while they're waiting.. Gun turrets are placed in other areas so that you can slow the other teams progress down. I'm sure you can think plenty of other team work objectives..

The idea is to take the game away the main objective of fragging, give it a strong teamplay element, slow it down a bit, make it third person view game, player weapons are kinda puny (shoots in a small arc, doesn't go too far or cause massive damage, but has a decent radius, or other weapons can simple stun or push the other players away), and the objective isn't totally to frag, but to slow the others down/race to the end. All of this is easily possible with UT2k4, and requires on the programming side some simple modification with weapons and perhaps some other things here and there.

Think of it as the Assault mode but with both teams taking part in offence. Think of it as a Survivor (yes that show) like challenge, where it's a race to reach each team's node first (hopefully we can think of other puzzle like obstructions/elements that require some thinking to get pass and will slow down any team that's way ahead).. at the end is, of course, the power core which you have to get to first and destroy completely to win..

It's gonna need a strict style which is going to have to be created by only a few people, then I guess it's a matter of the volunteers to use the concept and turning it into 3d. I like the Wind Waker (or other cute cartoony jap style with flat solid colours, patterns and designs) because it's simple texturing work, cartoony thus not highly detailed modelling work.. [8]

Oh, and in relation to programmer stuff :)

As noted (albeit briefly) they could work on material that would eventually get our stuff into the game and making it different from the usual game type stuff.

HUD changes, extra stuff, menus and customiseable stuff perhaps. ALl those sorts of things depending on the eventual theme.

So while all the artists work on the physical content that people see, the programmers work either on individual elements if they are small enough (the element, not the person ;)...or band together and create mutators or packages to make it all work together.

In essence the end result COULD be a MOD, completely original content from both a model and code perspective :)

On another note, as some people are definitelly better at 2D concepting over 3D...maybe we could give the 2 or three best 2D artists (if they didn't want to pursue the 3D side) the job of continuing with more concepts for the rest of the t'team' to model. So fo one of the comps, the 'concept design crew' make a number of concepts that are handed out to the modellers to create, all based on the one things. eg. the concepters create some character art for different character types....and the modelling team then model them. And so on and so forth.

If done well, each competition for one 'team' could lead another to their respective competition, creating a process of development to reach the ultimate goal. Each mini competition earns some small reward, even if it's just recognition from judges that theirs is of high standard. Cos that, to me, is pretty good in itself. (although prizes are good also ;)

Once again, this pushes, even further, the idea that we are working within a team, as a team, with each person given respective roles befitting their strongest attributes...much like they would in a games studio.

Not all this is a bit more complex that the very first prcess should be, I really think the initial step should be to see how well we can keep a project like this together...much like the step/competiton process for a can of coke idea I had. Which has now, incidentally, been upgraded to a 390ml :)

So yeah...bring it on!

I agree, toonstyle in an FPS environment would be cool...much like that toon country map. That was great.

Also moving away from FPS in the engine would be good, but I don't know what they would be like from a coders point of view etc. I assume it requires a lot more work (I'm thinking Unreal annihilation etc. for example) Dunno, what do the coders think they can do with the engine??

I like the party game idea, I definitelly like the co-op element...especially by a number of people. All co-op games have baeen with 2 people really, would like to see some based on more for instance. Halo was GREAT with 2 people co-op. Imagine what it would be like with 4 or so.

I rememebre a party game of some sort where you had a high box of land (or shape) and each person could bump people off the edge...I think it was actually a Mario party game...that in FPS would be interesting :)

Oh, and how long do you think we should leave ideas open for? I think one of the biggest issues is just leaving it open...people fade off and it gets forgotten.

A couple of days, a week, and then we get a final list of themes for people to vote on? I'd say End of THIS weekend, would be a good cutoff date. Most people get online during the weekend...maybe put a post on the main page to draw attention to it??

Oh, and one more before I forget it.

A platformer of some sort. 3rd person, cartoon style would be cool. We can integrate some of Souri's ideass into the gameplay (multiple multiplayer gametypes) but then we can also get some peope to work on a small storyline as well, if that's their thing :)

Especially with UT2004/Half Life2 Lip sync tech...could be interesting in making an interactive comic book/story...rather than just a game :) So you play a bit, make some decisions in the game, it effects the outcome of the story etc...

Now that's a HUGE undertaking...but if we kept it as a 'short' story perhaps...as an aside to the main, multiplayer element. I think we'd have a pretty original thing going. Especilly if we went all out comic feel to it (panel appearance etc :)

We could then focus on animation more as well then, with machinema etc.

btw : Happy Birthady for the 15th Souri [:D]

I'm pretty keen on my idea. It's scalable - it can start small scaled and playable straight away, with plenty of room for growth.. minimum requirements is 1 player model for starters, at least 3 hazard areas for the map, some weapons and some vehicles first. Hopefully the first map will have tonnes of areas (enough to go on for 20 minutes), a few more weapons and vehicle types, lots of detail in the map etc..

The Sumea theme, I was thinking more of the website elements in game.. Say one of the hazards is placed in cartoon Sumea town, Sumea themed vehicles etc

Thanks Hazard. [:)]

I like this idea of making each step a competition. And the reward for the winners would be to get their work added to the content of the game/mod. That would be a good enough prize, really. The only problem with this approach would be that the people who don't win the competitions would not get to see their hard work being put to use. It would probably more efficient to use everything that people make. So maybe only some aspects, like concept designs, should be competitions?

Maybe to start with, Sumea 3D town could be a worthwhile activity? At least then everyone can have a go.

Of course you like your idea...it's YOUR idea! :) hehe

Actually, throwing your idea, and the 3D town together...why don't we make a Sumea City...within that city we start building 'zones'. But we have a particular style throughout. So the concepting stage is REALLY important, as it is with any game.

So we have the social zone (chat), the puzzle zone (Souri's idea), teh Deathzone (FPS), and what have you. In essence, making as many zones as we want, crossing as many types of things as we want (per competition sort of thing, and make a zone over multiple comps if need be if it is big.

if we lower the base polycount (maybe we aim for next gen game like Half life or Unreal 3 so we get normal maps in at least) and work with normal maps...we can scale everything down and therefore fit everything into the one city :) eg. Player units are no more than 1500-2000 polys (with normal map, it'd look fine :) and buildings are cut down too, as normal maps can do AMAZING things :)

This way our city actually is sizeable at least, and we don't have to load between zones. Basically you can then go to Sumea city to socialise, go sort out puzzles with friends, beat each other up and what have you... And as the competiotns keep going, Sumea City keeps growing! :)

BUT, we'd have to stick to the same STYLE...as good as it would be for everyone to do their own thing, it doesn't feel/look as good if they do. So there's be a semi strict concept stage for every/most objects that go in...competitions based only for the big things...and lead designers confirming all the side stuff people may want to throw in.

souris idea of a mario party style maze thing is a pretty quick job to get started on as far as single player goes anyway. Someone metioned a rider and steed thing which i like also (still got those models from the old comp people? :P ).
Personally im game for whatever you guys come up with (since your using the unreal engine by the sounds of things).

One thing we really do need though is coder support, ive got tutorials on how to make new weapons and on one or two things like assigning health systems but nothing deep, do we have the coder support?

It's actually multiplayer co-op [;)] And yeh, it's based on the Onslaught mode in UT2k4, but with the various changes I've mentioned. The nodes run adjacent so both teams are right along each other, and getting a node is akin to completing a level/hazard..

Discmage, your idea sounds great, but it sounds like quite a bit of work!

Sumea city has a lot of potential to get the most out of more people. if you don't like a particular zone you don't have to do it...or people may do it anyway in waiting for a zone they DO like :)

A lot of the things created would be used across the whole of Sumea City anyway...characters, bad guys/NPC's, environments etc.

People could actually start working on elements they want to before the competitions get to it if they are that keen on it.

The very initial concepting stage would be worth going over a couple of competitions even...characters...and environments. (or one comp keeping the choice open to both). We'd have to keep the accepting of works pretty open...but hopefully if people can keep to the style 'close' enough it should work out fine. Nothing like culture clash to make an environment look interesting :)

The coding challenge could be something like sorting out how to make Unreal...or the engine we choose, know what 'zone' you are in...and giving the user the attributes/HUD/whatever specific to that zone etc. You wouldn't want someone to have guns working in the social zone for example.

So yeah, HUGE amount of scope, and you can partition it to the smallest thing....a character, two skins and a room...for the social Zone :)

Oh yeah, EVERYTHING I come up with sounds big...but also all of my things CAN be broken down to individual things.

As I said, all it has to start with is a group of similar characters for one competition. and we just keep building from there.

I write a lot I know, I guess I get a little too into these sort of projects if I think it could work :) That, and I'm bored at work :)

Um, I can code vehicles in UT2004. well, more like I can cut and paste from current vehicles :) But I got SOME idea of what's sort of going on. sort of...maybe.

I still think working towards a normal map engine would be better, jump on the next gen straight off the bat so if and when we do release we already have a significant library already built.

Half life 2 (when it ever comes out) or Unreal 3...although a year away at least, are still posibble to work with with the tools that are out. Except the code side. So maybe we make a Sumea Town before Sumea City ;)

When you start talking about creating a city, with normal maps, on unreleased next-gen engines, I'm just hearing alarm bells.. [:0] [:)]