Saw this thread over at the TrueVision3D forums, I found it rather interesting to see peoples thoughts on it.
Can't read posts... brain hurting...
"me fail english? That's umpossible!"
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/20058260734_ralph1.jpg[…]
quote:Originally posted by Marty
Why am I wasting my time replying to this *bangs head on the table*
U-Die *cough* um..It took a reference shot for you to finally show something with lighting and geometry etc. Aside from copying someone elses work, show us the next room, what does that look like? Whats through one of those doors?
Be creative.
Also um...*sigh* spelling and grammar is integral to any position in game development, if you cannot construct a single sentence in basic english I'd be very worried..
Marty
you see if you bang your head on table to much you will end up like me :O
ye is true i should show you better but Initially i was thinking that a days work to show some 1 some thing and they nic my design
any that?s an excuse give me a few days and ill crank some thing out
but as you see i lighting is my week point :O
here i did lighting again ...this mapper is lucky he can see were he could go in this room
ps if my spelling is bad blame Microsoft word the basted application lets me down
his bit of map my way :P
http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=13830562&selected=
im still not happy with it [:(]
and ye ill be nice ok ..well ill try any ways [:D]
if you want to show work you should start a new thread dedicated to your work in the Exhibition section here: [url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=19[/url]
also, please check your spelling and grammar - even MS word should pick up most of your errors. at least read over your post and particually look to see if it needs grammatical fixes such as commers, etc. and make sure it all makes sence - what does this mean?:
"well if a blew a bridge up :O
won?t be the first"
you might not think you need to type correctly "becuase you draw" - but that dosn't help us understand what you're saying, and neither does it help us to take you seriously.
Lorien: *cough* Conspiracy theorist *cough* [:P]
Mcdrewski: Thanks for the intro! I should hire you as freelance 'plugger' [:)]
Udie: Definately start a new thread - and ask for feedback to improove, there are a few highly experienced level designers who have credits on some of the best recent titles (and im sure titles that are yet to be announced) who frequent these forums, and im sure if you tweaked your attitude back a few notches theyd be more than willing to help you on your way to becoming a really grand level designer.
From my knowledge Game institutions and University courses alike have to conform to what the education board makes them teach, so you are basically going to get the same structure of learning from either the institution or University. I think the difference would be in the tutors experience in the games industry as that can impact the amount of knowledge you can absorb from them.
I'd like to see an independent "game collage" that teaches you what you need to know about either freelancing or the being employed in the games industry; telling them the Crappiest parts to the rewarding parts of the industry the very first day. Hazard has told me his Tutor on the first day at QANTM gave them a 4 hour lecture on the "truths of the game industry" and that really separated the men from the boys :)
Lets get this thread back on topic shall we? [:D]
Hazard: Hee hee [:D]
Anuxinamoon: that's yes and no, yes everywhere gets the course outlines and structure examined. That doesn't mean you get the same structure or content between different institutions at all, and they each run very different courses. Also there are many kinds of accreditation, for example some courses are accredited by the Australian Computer Society http://acs.org.au in addition to govt accreditation.
quote:Originally posted by LiveWire
if you want to show work you should start a new thread dedicated to your work in the Exhibition section here: [url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=19[/url]
also, please check your spelling and grammar - even MS word should pick up most of your errors. at least read over your post and particually[[ particularly ]]look to see if it needs grammatical fixes such as comers , etc. and make sure it all makes sence
[[sense ]] - what does this mean?:
"well if a blew a bridge up :O
won?t be the first"
you might not think you need to type correctly " because [[because ]] you draw" - but that dosn't help us understand what you're saying, and neither does it help us to take you seriously.
erm look up [[ ]]
Yawn ?.here is 1 question witch 1 teaches 3d max
As I don?t see any advantages of using maya and why ?every school in new Zealand infatuated with maya . is it cheep or some thing ..max is by far the most used 3d application used by game company?s and I wounded why its not part of any class
In game development /art side
I think version 8 will put 3ds max well in front of maya and I think it should be a choice
Of main 3d application ,not an inevitable maya
If you work with maya good on you ..but in all the applications and editors ,I prefer max and it sort of disheartens me I will have to use maya never mind a flippen mac [:X]
and i think this is a very important factor that has been over looked
of course the difference is my spelling mistakes are minor and the post still makes sense.
I don't know what software every UNI or Tafe course in Autralia teaches, but QANTM and AIE both teach 3dsmax primarily. Maya has a lot of advantages for production - mostly the ability to customise the program extensivly using Mel Script, meaning you can alter the program specifically to work with your workflow and other applications, far easier than you can in 3dsmax.
I prefer max for modeling, though.
You think that the packages they teach you is what really matters!? To me that seems completely crazy- though perhaps not if you want to join that wonderfull system described by Chris Crawford above [:)]
Bit of a reality check here: software goes out of date, and software companies go bust, often taking their packages with them. IMHO what you want to learn is principles, not packages.
i read that blog by Crawford prefviously, and while i agree with him mostly - certainly in terms of design - it's not really applicable for those who simply want to be an artist or programmer. if you want to be a top character artist working on AAA titles then by all means do a course in 3d animation, get an entry level job, and work you way up and practice. you might not end up amoungst the worlds greatest game designers, but if that's not your desired field or ambition then there's nothing wrong with a one off 3d degree.
i agree that software is irrelevant, mostly anyway. once you know 3d you know 3d. i learnt on max but when i got hired i switched to maya. i say mostly though becuase some people ask specifically for experience in a particular package, but for every one of those there's pleanty more that dont.
That essay (afaik it isn't a blog) is called "The Education of a Computer Game Designer", and I think it is designers who have the most to gain from the really broad education that Chris Crawford advocates. That said, I think it is still applicable to an artist or programmer- developing skills in areas other than games allows you to cross them over into games, as well as giving more future options. Also finding out how things other than games work doesn't do any harm to your skills in the long term- it can actually improve them quite a bit. IMHO of course.
Packages and techniques are in general easier to learn in your own time than principles, particularly with things like GMax around.
quote:Originally posted by lorien
You think that the packages they teach you is what really matters!? To me that seems completely crazy- though perhaps not if you want to join that wonderfull system described by Chris Crawford above [:)]
Bit of a reality check here: software goes out of date, and software companies go bust, often taking their packages with them. IMHO what you want to learn is principles, not packages.
Well see if you lean principals of a 3d application
You really know nothing as the methodology is different in the same equation of object construction //even though it hold some relative similarities
And I doubt desktop will g o bust as it also has auto cad ,enough said .so more likely maya will go bust first?yes and maya you can adjust it with script as it so incomplete it needs a bucket full off pluggins or mile of script even to compete with max 8 on stand alone level
This is the thing we learn old applications when now that class that took an hour to learn
Is as simple as a click
I know new Zealand is small but if people go taught in the currant version of an application at the time ..this would only boost the students out put and at the end of the day
More students will sought this kind of education?.
Any way fun [:0][;)]
For any 1 that likes 3d modeling in max ..here is an ok vtm on making a pistol.
it will give you an idea of what needs to be done, if you have not attended a class
and unsure of what to do concerning this
http://www.hl2modcentral.com/tutorial.php?id=23
Beretta 9000 VTM "this i learnt from hope u do /pity i was not as good as him in making guns "
Maya has its strong points but I like max
I may have to learn maya but I think its wrong to force artist to use tools that they not comfortable with
Like taking a painters paint brush away and giving him a pencil
edit [8D] And for programmers here is a fun place to find what u need ?if not there off 1 of the links and this place has been around for many, many years
http://www.gamedev.net/
quote:Well see if you lean principals of a 3d application
You really know nothing as the methodology is different in the same equation of object construction //even though it hold some relative similarities
as someone who has switched from max to maya (as have mot other people at krome since they changed), beliefve me when i say all that we knew of Max was not worthless. If ou know how to use one 3d application, all you need to do to learn another is to figure out the equivilent tools/methods.
secondly lets not get into a max vs maya debate, they are both great 3d apps with strengths and weaknesses(and if anything 3dsmax is more likly to die before maya since maya is used by almost all of the film industry). in the end the difference between them when it comes to using them is minimal. the only preference someone could have between them would be the tools and slight workflow variations. other than that they've very simular from an artist perspective. If you're not comfortable with one or the other then it's probably because your simply not that good with the one in question. i wasn't confortable with maya when i started becuase i didnt know it, now i do, and i have no problem with it. it's not like learning a new skill set or anything.
quote:Originally posted by LiveWire
oh nooos
i will sp chec i next time
2 lol XD
[;)]When you realize its ok to make mistakes you will be a happier person
So to maya or not to maya ? is not the question
Ok well lets look at this way, what to you is the most important things to learn
About in game development. do coerces cater to this ,or not ?
Id think in the long term there would be to much to learn ,so all
A coerce could offer you is a solid foundation in witch to build upon ..and build you will
As its characteristic need for the work environment you training for
I think coming from New Zealand or OZ the industries bounders need reinforcing
And the up coming students will inevitably help if given the right education
So realistically look after your seedlings if you want strong plants" <- metaphor for
teach the new properly as they are the futcher.hmm but are they and people just been picky ? personally I think collage should be opening and uni the finishing level
sort of a 4 year coerce ..that reminds me I got to still do concept drawings to hand in with my application to uni ?? man I sketch in 3d what is a pencil?[:0][:X][:(]
[?]See a gun I made ..not the best ..
http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=13865583&selected=
how to bone it animate it and get players hand into animation from doom 3
information like this hard to get a complete answer
I try make a doom3/mod /viz
And with out fill understanding my progression is slow
If you have a vtm on this please ill download it
You are aware, U-Die, that writing essays are a large part of university? If you're planning on higher education, you really need to get your writing up to scratch.
As it stands, people will take you more seriously if you can structure your ideas into coherent sentences. Your current lack of grammar and spelling is basically telling each member here that you don't care enough to do things right.
Here's a tip.
Write it out. Then read it out aloud. Make adjustments where necessary.
Spelling. Use www.dictionary.com
Communication is an essential skill these days. Learn it before you start worrying about 3d programs.
I guess I'll post my thoughts here, since I'm actually stumbling around with a similar question. I am a soon to be CS graduate (hopefully [;)]), who is looking at the game dev industry as a highly viable career path.
My CS course has provided me with a basic foundation in whats required for a CS/IT industry career; however when narrowing the career path destination game dev, its a different story. Even with relevant subjects, it hasn't (and possibly nor should it have,) given me enough to comfortably say that I am ready for a job position within the industry. I figure a game college graduate is more likely to state the opposite.
Game specific courses do look a whole lot more tempting then a generic uni course. Especially since after UNI there are only two real options I can see, either giving in and picking up one of these game specific courses anyway or finding a IT job and doing independent study.
Those generic skills are likely to benifit you for years to come. Have a good read of sumea. Vocational games courses are designed to get you up to speed with stuff in use now, but don't think you can do one of these courses and jump into proffessional engine dev or anything.
That essay by Chris Crawford I linked to at the top of this thread really talks about this stuff.
quote:Originally posted by lorien
Those generic skills are likely to benifit you for years to come. Have a good read of sumea. Vocational games courses are designed to get you up to speed with stuff in use now, but don't think you can do one of these courses and jump into proffessional engine dev or anything.
That essay by Chris Crawford I linked to at the top of this thread really talks about this stuff.
Don't expect to do *any* course and get picked up as an engine dev by any established games company. People in those roles have experience, and for very good reason.
Of course you can try to start your own, and be engine dev on that, but then you'll probably won't have time to develop the business and will fail (even if you did, odds are it would fail).
quote:
It shows how week you are
Get a back bone
Okay, sure thing?
Mate, you?re the one so insecure that you feel some perverse sense of pleasure and enjoyment by trolling Internet forums with egotistical attacks on established forum members, and in the process essentially destroy a valid thread that could legitimately help people.
You post on here under the pretence of being a dedicated student of game art seeking entry into the industry, only to later insult professional and experienced game developers when they try to offer you advice and constructive criticism.
Your art has been less then impressive, despite your boasts of elite skills, and your initial presentation of yourself has come across as unintelligent, illiterate and disrespectful.
It really has not a good start into a game development forum for someone claiming to be dedicated to improving game skills and to find work in this community. All the evidence clearly points towards typical forum trolling behaviour.
u-die, please prove me wrong and become a respected contributing member of the forums and show us this dedication for self improvement you claim to have. But in the meantime, please stop trolling to agitate and show some respect to the game development community, which you claim to want to be a part of.
And please, please, put some effort into writing coherently.
It?s not my intention for this post to be purely insulting to you u-die, but rather a proverbial slap in the face. If you aren?t a troll, then you really do need a reality check.
(Sorry guys. I wasn?t going to respond, but he did ask me too.)