QANTM lecturer

FerretallicA, don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not trying to justify Qantm's contractual terms to it's students just because it's standard practice in the workplace. What you've said makes sense and I wish you well :)

It is rather evident that FerretallicA has had a rather bad experience with Qantm. Let me say that not everyone is as sore as he is. I for one am rather pleased with the outcome of the course (Although, I did get a scholarship, and payed under $500).

I learned quite alot, not so much programming-wise (although I did learn a bit) but rather on the processes that are involved in gamedev.

Also, if you have done nothing yourself, going Qantm is certainly not going to get you a job. You have to work on your own stuff, in your own time, which is what many of the people that have jobs now have done.

If you are thinking about going to Qantm, make sure you know what you are getting into. And if you do, work hard, listen to what everyone teaches you, do your best, (etc), and make it worth it yourself.

I hate this scholarship thing.... only year 12 students get it...
Isn't there one for non yr 12 students?

Leviron-

I totally agree! They finally got the money to have scholarships but are only offering it to year 12 students. Will you be starting the course at the start of 2004??

Doolwind

quote:Originally posted by Doolwind

Leviron-

I totally agree! They finally got the money to have scholarships but are only offering it to year 12 students. Will you be starting the course at the start of 2004??

Doolwind

this is the first intake for a long time (as far as i know) that hasnt had several scholarships
for my intake, i think there were around 7 ppl who got them, and they were open to anyone

so i guess you are just unlucky you are going now rather than earlier

It's a different course though, shiva

true enough

Thing with Qantm (and this is probably neither here nor there, but..) i couldn't get into their course with roughly the same portfolio that *has* gotten me interviews with real companies.

Getting into a course will also depends on your answers to there criteria selection, its never just your portfolio and if you and 20 others have similar abilities but there answers are better then you'll miss out.

Well, having seen some of the art of the students that did get in, i'd say (and this isn't intended as a dig, just an observation) their criteria of selection is fairly biased towards cartoon/pop culture stuff/style of art.

I don't mean to sound pissed off, it'll just amuse me if my current job app comes off with roughly the same portfolio i submitted to them [;)]

quote:Originally posted by cutty

Well, having seen some of the art of the students that did get in, i'd say (and this isn't intended as a dig, just an observation) their criteria of selection is fairly biased towards cartoon/pop culture stuff/style of art.

I think you may have just pointed out the reason. If they are accepting pop culture stuff, the word by its very meaning of popular culture implies larger audience for the finished product. And games must appeal to that larger audience.

Pantmonger

Also I think they largely try not to take just people with an more advanced level of ability as they have less to learn and won't benefit as much as someone who is just starting out.

I know I nearly didn't get my scholarship because they thought I wouldn't gain anything from the course as I had the level of ability that the course would end up giving someone. Wasn't until one of my lecturers said he wanted me in that I got the green light.

I wouldn't take it as a statement that they believe less in your ability, quite the opposite I would think.

So people like me; only wanting to get some bullet points on my resume is seriously getting ripped off.
I have no idea what to stick in my resume...I can do people really well but rather lacking with landscape and buildings.

I wouldn't say ripped off but you may not get as much out as someone who has more to learn.

Ferret,

There is something I really don't understand about your constant ranting on numerous forums. You were at QANTM when? 18 months ago? 2 years ago? The course is very different from when you were at QANTM so I am at a loss to understand why you seem so obsessed about turning people away from their chance to achieve something. You say it's a waste of time? Shiva was part of a group that won 3rd place in Auran's Next Year's Game compeition recently. How did they do it? With some raw talent and a lot of hard work despite any problems they encountered. The main problems they encountered had to do with students, not QANTM. QANTM is not perfect, we have problems, guess what, that's life. Most of us get on with it and try to make something better of ourselves and our situation and that is exactly what QANTM has done.

Despite your protestations, you do seem intent on blaming QANTM for your failures. If this was not so then you would not keep ranting about what happened when you came here. You would listen to the current students whom have told you so on the QANTM forum. Alternatively, you would at least update your arguments about why QANTM is failing the students. Something you tried to do on the QANTM forums and failed to achieve. -[Edit removed forum link].

For anyone else interested in finding out what you can do at QANTM I suggest asking the students on the QANTM forums at http://post.qantm.com.au/forum . Alternatively, I would be happy to answer any questions. I'm the course coordinator for the games diploma course at QANTM.

Darren

So what's the graphic design course going to teach people?
There's nothing on the forum about that.

quote:Originally posted by Leviron

So what's the graphic design course going to teach people?
There's nothing on the forum about that.

Hi Leviron,

I have passed your question onto the relevant trainer and I will get back to when I get his response. The forums at QANTM are relatively new. Feel free to post a question asking the students what you would like to know.

Darren

quote:Originally posted by Leviron

So what's the graphic design course going to teach people?
There's nothing on the forum about that.

I got a brief answer today.

Conceptual:
1. Print design
2. Pre press
3. Illustration
4. Drawing
5. Web design

Software:
1. Flash
2. Dreamweaver
3. Photoshop
4. Illustrator
5. Indesign

Darren

Hey Darren I can't register at that forum at all. It doesn't like any of my email addresses....not even my ISP email.

That looks like what the PDF files says.
I want student opinion.
I recently checked the forum and there is 1 new topic and it sucks.

quote:Originally posted by Leviron

Hey Darren I can't register at that forum at all. It doesn't like any of my email addresses....not even my ISP email.

That looks like what the PDF files says.
I want student opinion.
I recently checked the forum and there is 1 new topic and it sucks.

Hi Leviron,

Your original question did not specify you wanted student opinion, simply that you wanted to know what the graphic design course was going to teach people.

You won't be able to register in the forum without a QANTM student/staff email address, however, you can post as a guest. Simply select the "New Topic" button, it will ask you for a User Name, topic, and message without requiring a login.

Venture a little bit and ask.

Darren

Hi Darren,

I'm looking at undertaking the Diploma of IT next year. I went to one of the "Industry Nights" last year where people show off their games and one of the "Open nights" where a lecture was given about QANTM in general. Is there any chance we could see what the average class/lecture given at QANTM is like for the diploma students. While the industry and open nights were great I was hoping to get a better feel for how the lectures are run. Do you know if this is possible, and if so who I need to contact to organise this.

Thanks for your help, and for the constructive emails you have written on these boards regarding people's queries about QANTM.

Doolwind

quote:Originally posted by Doolwind

Hi Darren,

I'm looking at undertaking the Diploma of IT next year. I went to one of the "Industry Nights" last year where people show off their games and one of the "Open nights" where a lecture was given about QANTM in general. Is there any chance we could see what the average class/lecture given at QANTM is like for the diploma students. While the industry and open nights were great I was hoping to get a better feel for how the lectures are run. Do you know if this is possible, and if so who I need to contact to organise this.

Thanks for your help, and for the constructive emails you have written on these boards regarding people's queries about QANTM.

Doolwind

Hi Doolwind :)

QANTM conducts a "Technofest" during the school holidays that does exactly that. We held one in July, and we just held another last week. It's a pity you missed the last one! Our goal was to try and teach students how to write some C/C++ code in a day in a fun environment. To this end, we created a 3D framework for students to learn how to write a very simple AI for a bot that competed in an arena with other students bots. The average number of lines to control the bot was about 10-20. It was a lot of fun! Some of the old timers reading might recognise the concept from Tom Poindexter's CRobots.

If you want to come in I would be happy to show you around and talk you through what we teach.

Darren

Thanks for the offer Darren,

Is there a particular day and/or time that would be best for me to come into QANTM? Would you like me to call or email you to arrange a time? I usually work from home monday and tuesday so any time either day would be good for me.

Thanks,

Alistair

quote:Originally posted by Doolwind

Thanks for the offer Darren,

Is there a particular day and/or time that would be best for me to come into QANTM? Would you like me to call or email you to arrange a time? I usually work from home monday and tuesday so any time either day would be good for me.

Thanks,

Alistair

Hi Alistair,

I can be contacted at dbostock@qantm.com.au and we can arrange a time.

Darren

I think qantum is a very good option opposed to SBIT in Morningside for anything graphics wise.
I guess you have to see both campuses to believe my point.
All I can say is location, location costs money.

Re:
<<
Our goal was to try and teach students how to write some C/C++ code in a day in a fun environment. To this end, we created a 3D framework for students to learn how to write a very simple AI for a bot that competed in an arena with other students bots. The average number of lines to control the bot was about 10-20.
>>

Alternately you could pay $6,000 for a free "Teach Yourself C++" book and access to lecturers that can't co-ordinate between themselves.

To anyone that has attended these "technofests", I wouldn't be surprised if Qantm appears worth going to. Organising a one-day event isn't hard though (although they still managed to fall on their faces when it came to organising an 'industry night'). Organising a year-long (or two-year-long in the case of some new courses apparently) course is a different story entirely. If you got anything out of the "Technofest", be happy for the experience but don't let it get to your head. Qantm's full-on courses are not worth the time or the money.

It saddens me to think how effective this one-day-exhibition approach probably is in roping in new victi...students. Then again their marketing department has always been Qantm's only strong point.

quote:Originally posted by FerretallicA
Alternately you could pay $6,000 for a free "Teach Yourself C++" book and access to lecturers that can't co-ordinate between themselves.

Do you get some giddy thrill from saying things that are not true, but more importantly, you don't know about? FUD is usually the domain of those intent on hurting their victim with no regard for the truth.

quote:Originally posted by FerretallicA
To anyone that has attended these "technofests", I wouldn't be surprised if Qantm appears worth going to. Organising a one-day event isn't hard though (although they still managed to fall on their faces when it came to organising an 'industry night'). Organising a year-long (or two-year-long in the case of some new courses apparently) course is a different story entirely. If you got anything out of the "Technofest", be happy for the experience but don't let it get to your head. Qantm's full-on courses are not worth the time or the money.

You right on one point. After our last Technofest it very much looked like our programming course is worth doing. We put in a lot of work to develop a framework that would make learning how to code fun for people who had not done any coding at all. And we succeeded. As for the full time experience, people should ask the students currently studying. These are the same students whom told ferret that he had a personal problem that they could not relate to because all things considered, they were getting out of the course what they put into it. Don't rely on my word though. I'm biased being the current Course Coordinator for the course. Ask the students yourselves on the same QANTM forums that ferret tried to stir discontent on. They can be found [url="http://post.qantm.com.au/forum"]here[/url]. You can ask them at their own group message board [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AspiringDevelopers/"]here[/url]. And if that isn't enough, feel free to ask them in person on Open Day which is the 6th of December around lunch time. Ring QANTM for exact times.

quote:Originally posted by FerretallicA
It saddens me to think how effective this one-day-exhibition approach probably is in roping in new victi...students. Then again their marketing department has always been Qantm's only strong point.

We spend weeks preparing to deliver that one day. Coders prepare, coders deliver, coders (yes, us, the instructors) get assessed on the feedback, same as the feedback from our normal classes. I would hate to think of the marketing department trying to organise how to teach someone the joy of coding in one day.

Why don't you come in and we can discuss why it is you feel driven to spread FUD about myself and the course I coordinate? I look forward to seeing you resolve whatever issue it is you have, assuming you do want to resolve your issue.

Darren Bostock

Jesus Ferret. Get a life and stop whinging about the past.

I am in the process of finishing the Diploam of IT (Games Dev) course at QANTM an I could not be happier. I got out of it exactly what I put into it. I believed that all my teachers over the past year tought me as close to the industry standard skills as possible and I believe that when i get a job (heres hoping) that I will have a solid starting foundation to go on.

You did this course 12 months ago and yet you still blame them for your not being able to get a job today. Even if the course was not that good back when you did it, what has stopped you from teaching yourself the skills needed over the past year? I personally think that the problem is completely with you NOT QANTM.

So in short QANTM was great for me and for a bunch of other ppl who came through with me think the same. If you are wanting to do the course but have been put of by the ignorant rantings of one individual then I urge you to simply hop on their student FORUM.
( Adress posted earlier) and actually ask a current student. At least that way you will get an unbiased opinion.

Mdobele- you are a tool.

quote:You did this course 12 months ago and yet you still blame them for your not being able to get a job today.

1) I never once said I blame them for not being able to get a job
2) I have been employed full time since April.
You know fuck all about me or my situation, be it now or 12 months ago, and yet you stand up for Qantm and blame me for something you know obviously nothing about.

quote:Even if the course was not that good back when you did it, what has stopped you from teaching yourself the skills needed over the past year?

That's what I've done... just goes to show Qantm offers nothing significant that you can't learn just as easily yourself with an internet connection and a basic understanding of how to use Google.

quote:So in short QANTM was great for me and for a bunch of other ppl who came through with me think the same.

We'll see what the general consensus is once all is said and done. As I've said before, it doesn't hit you just how much of a rip off the course was until it's all over and you build an objective view of what happened over the past year and how you could have better spent your time/cash. You may well still think the sun shines out of Qantm's collective arsehole, as it wouldn't be a rip off to everyone. There are some people who could benefit from Qantm and I haven't denied that. That number is easily outweighed by the number who would be better off elsewhere though.

quote:If you are wanting to do the course but have been put of by the ignorant rantings of one individual then I urge you to simply hop on their student FORUM.

Again the problem being what I mentioned above, as well as something I noted while actually studying there. Other than myself who has no objection to speaking my mind regardless, the other students I spoke to who shared my objections or had their own were of the mindset that they'd rather just not say anything so they wouldn't get into any shit. Better than speaking to current students is to speak to past students (and no I don't just mean myself). Hindsight is a wonderful, albiet often self-torturous, and a better assessment of the course would be offered by someone who has "been there, done that" and seen where it all really ends up rather than someone who is "nearly there" and probably can't appreciate it all.

I'm guessing you are in some cozy situation like having your parents pay for the course for you in which case it wouldn't surprise me that you have no concept of value regarding it. For someone like me who set aside plans and worked their arse off to save up the cash to move to Brisbane and do the course, it's not enough to simply get a few minor benefits out of it.

OK, now "Some Dude"'s turn...

quote:

quote:Alternately you could pay $6,000 for a free "Teach Yourself C++" book and access to lecturers that can't co-ordinate between themselves.

Do you get some giddy thrill from saying things that are not true, but more importantly, you don't know about? FUD is usually the domain of those intent on hurting their victim with no regard for the truth.

Name one part of what I said that isn't true. While I have no idea what "FUD" is, it's apparent it is just another sales-oriented technique for avoiding a subject at hand by instead boxing the argument as a whole into some pre-defined category and dismissing it without analysis of it's individual merit. "Qantm is bad? Must be FUD. Bye."

Fact- The course cost $6000
Fact- The C++ component- which is really the core of the entire course- was tought with the same lesson structure and example code of "SAMs Teach Yourself C++ In (however many hours/days)". Students were encouraged to read the corresponding chapter in the book if they were having trouble following the lessons.
Fact- "SAMs Teach Yourself C++ In (however many hours/days)" is legally available for free in electronic format.

Now let's try again- what part of what I said wasn't true?

quote:We put in a lot of work to develop a framework that would make learning how to code fun for people who had not done any coding at all.

This is the kind of person for whom I mentioned in reply to Mdobele's comment that Qantm would offer the most benefit to. People who have absolutely no coding experience at all. They just MIGHT get enough value out of the course to make enrolling worth while. Still, these people have absolutely NO chance of getting a job out of the course or any significant opportunity from the 'industry night', even if they weren't in direct competition with people who are entering the course with years of experience dabbling in the dark art of programming. Qantm's qualifications are about as good as toilet paper when it comes to applying for most IT jobs (programming-related and otherwise) outside of the game development industry, and given the microscopic number of students that are employed from the course that's a lot of people left in the lurch. Which brings me to another point- would you care to provide statistics for how many students have been enrolled in the software development courses at Qantm over the past years and how many have found employment in the game development industry? Here's a hint- a statistic is not an excuse or explanation like "employment reflects the efforts of the students" or "Qantm doesn't promise jobs". It is something along the lines of "In 2002, 60 students were enrolled and 4 managed to get jobs after the course. In 2001..." etc. By all means feel free to add excuses after the numbers.

quote:As for the full time experience, people should ask the students currently studying. These are the same students whom told ferret that he had a personal problem that they could not relate to because all things considered, they were getting out of the course what they put into it. Don't rely on my word though. I'm biased being the current Course Coordinator for the course. Ask the students yourselves on the same QANTM forums that ferret tried to stir discontent on. They can be found here. You can ask them at their own group message board here. And if that isn't enough, feel free to ask them in person on Open Day which is the 6th of December around lunch time.

Again- better yet, ask people who have come full circle and can give a reflective viewpoint. Go to the open day, get the email address, ICQ/MSN contact etc. Send them a quick note asking how things have turned out around mid-January at the earliest. If they say the course was great for them, then it probably was. Be objective however- ask specific questions. Find out WHY it was good. If they paid for the course themself, ask if it was worth the investment. What did Qantm offer that they couldn't have achieved by themselves?

quote:We spend weeks preparing to deliver that one day... ...I would hate to think of the marketing department trying to organise how to teach someone the joy of coding in one day.

I don't doubt it. That one day is pretty much an advertisement to encourage people to cough up for the full time courses. Of course a lot of time would be spent on it. Bottom line is the Technofests aren't done out of the goodness of Qantm's heart or desire to give back to the community. It's marketing.

quote:Why don't you come in and we can discuss why it is you feel driven to spread FUD about myself and the course I coordinate? I look forward to seeing you resolve whatever issue it is you have, assuming you do want to resolve your issue.

Coming in wouldn't be such a problem if I wasn't living 1000km's away. If you were really at all concerned about my "issue", there are several points of contact available from this very forum. I have tried contacting Qantm on numerous occassions regarding various issues and am yet to once be taken seriously. My most recent correspondance was regarding trying to get a copy of the contracts students signed at the beginning of 2002. Two emails later I've heard not a thing. I've basically given up on the idea of getting any co-operation from Qantm. I don't come here solely for the purpose of "spreading FUD" as you put it though. My point is to make people aware that there are other options out there. If you are already moving interstate anyway like I did, the Academy of Interactive Entertainment in Canberra is one of them. For graphic-oriented people, places like the Computer Graphics College are alternatives. If you want to actually get a job, Qantm is a bad choice- stick to proper unis if you can help it. If you live in Brisbane and insist on staying there, can't get into uni for whatever reason, and have tried to teach yourself coding through online resources but failed and you don't have any expectiations of getting employed without significant further study afterwards, then consider Qantm. It's not completely hopeless. It has it's merits. Just not near as many as they'd like you to believe.

quote:lecturers that can't co-ordinate between themselves.

Sorry, I forgot to address this point in the first section. The course started fairly organised when it was just being tought out of the TYC++ book, but it wasn't long before Danny and Christian (not to speak ill of the instructors themselves, rather the co-ordination between them) were completely out of sync. Christian didn't even once teach anything on the Auran Jet engine which was supposed to be one of the focuses of the course, instead mostly promoting his own proprietary "Pi" scripting engine which has no use in the industry. After a while a third lecturer Dale was introduced and he began teaching his own course from scratch while Danny continued to stick to the original course and Christian continued to do his own thing.

I mean to say nothing bad of the instructors on a personal level. If I had the money I would have probably looked into doing the course Dale was teaching at some uni (I think it was Griffith) as he was personally well organised and an excellent teacher. His personal web site was more helpful and better organised than Qantm's student web sites which says a lot. Anyone considering study at Qantm should look at the course he teaches at Griffith (!?) first. Virtually guaranteed to be better organised, and having a proper university qualification on your resume will look infinitely better than "Diploma of Software Development (Games)- Qantm" in the eyes of most employers.