Sumea Programmer Challenge

I'm thinking of doing an Impossible Mission clone. Already got quite a few ideas on how to attack it technically. The best part though - programmer art robots! :P

Attack it from behind while it's not looking. That's my plan.

destroy him my robots

Stay for a while... Stay forever!

dont forget the bug in the last level that wont let you finish it

impossible indeed! :P

Matt D

Well, I knew the design of the game wasn't going to be simple, but I didn't imagine I'd come up with all this! 48 hours, hey? Here's hoping... When I said Impossible Mission clone, I took it quite literally even to the point of ripping off the basic story :P

The basic idea is that an evil person has stolen 16 animals from 8 endangered species (male and female from each). Being an evil person, he has locked them up in cages in his complex. To avoid having everything in an easy-for-intruders-to-get location, he has cut up the key cards for the cages in to four pieces each and hidden them in his complex. To avoid people looking for them, he turned on security in the form of robots. The player starts off inside the complex. Entering the complex, however, has started a timer for a Doomsday device (yes, think Dr Strangeglove). Six hours and it goes boom. Release the animals from the 8 endangered species, and find the ninth key card (also cut up) that unlocks the evil guy's control centre to disable the Doomsday device.

The game itself:

Player:
LEFT and RIGHT arrow - walk left and right
SPACE - jump
UP arrow - search Searchable
UP and DOWN arrow - move lift up and down

World:
Linear world with up to eight Pylons and up to seven Connecting Lifts

Connecting Lifts:
In between each pylon, provides a means for accessing different rooms
Walkways to rooms based on pylon layout

Walkway:
Connects Connecting Lifts to Rooms via Entry

Pylon:
up to eight Rooms a pylon

Rooms: (40 x 30 tiles)
Entry defined as side, tile
Platform defined as start and end tile
Robot defined as behaviour, tile, patrol start and end tile
Searchable defined as tile, type, search time
Lift defined as tile waypoints, lifts available on waypoints
Computer defined as tile
Any null space at the bottom of a Room is lethal to the player

Entry:
Player appears at Entry corresponding to Walkway
Walking in to Entry returns player to Walkway

Platform:
A solid platform from start tile to end tile that Player and Robot can traverse

Robot:
The enemy of the game, kills Player on contact
Moves between patrol start and end tile depending on behaviour
Behaviour 1: sits still and looks dangerous
Behaviour 2: sits still and shoots Laser when player comes in range
Behaviour 3: sits still, shoots Laser for 3 seconds in one direction, pauses for one second, turns, pauses for one second, repeat
Behaviour 4: moves to start patrol tile, shoots laser for 3 seconds, turns, moves to end patrol tile, shoots laser for 3 seconds, turns, repeat
Behaviour 5: moves to start patrol tile, turns, moves to end patrol tile, turns, repeat. speeds up when player is in its sight

Laser:
Beam of pure energy, kills Player on contact

Searchable:
A common household item
Player presses and holds up to search for a specified amount of time
Once search is complete, Reward given (selected at random at start of game)

Reward:
Reward 1: Key card pieces to cages (36 in total)
Reward 2: Suspend robots for limited time (5% of remaining total items in game)
Reward 3: Reset room to original state (5% of remaining total items in game)
Reward 4: NOTHING

Key Card Pieces:
Pieces rotated and coloured at random. 4 pieces make a complete card

Lift:
Moves up and down between waypoints
More than one lift can be on a set of waypoints

Computer:
Use Reward 2 and 3 at a computer

Completing the game:
Collect 36 cage keys and search Cages in less than six hours

Dieing:
Death results in 10 minutes being taken off the time limit

Cages:
A special Searchable that only activates once 36 Key Card Pieces are collected and assembled

Assembling Card Keys:
If I can get this far in 48 hours, I'd be going EXTREMELY well :)
A puzzle game
Rotate and colour 4 pieces so that each match up perfectly to form a complete piece

Slightly more ambitious than my project. Good luck to you.

It begins!

Wooo.. I'm so excited I'm shaking! That or I'm overdosing on caffeine. Either way I'm ready!

After 3 hours, I got my program set up (Direct3D, DirectInput) and the rendering system working. I'm now working on creating the rooms, and then after that I'll get a guy running around, and then after that I'll get robots happening.

Loading in rooms from a text file.

Robots have basic patrol functionality.

I've done more than I thought I would have in this time.

You know, it'd take me more than 48 hours to think up and plan a decent design doc [:D]

Impossible Mission clone! [img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simagesmisc/nana.gif[/img]

After almost 24 hours, I've gotten done:

Player and basic (left/right/jump) movement
Loading of rooms from text files
Robots with definable patrol paths in the room file
Platforms from one point to another
Player death
The best programmer art you'll ever see. An appropriate title for this game would be "DISTORTED STICK FIGURE MAN AND THE ATTACK OF THE AUTOMATED SALT SHAKERS OF HORRIBLE DOOM"

I doubt I'm going to get out to the world to make the lifts and pylons, so I'm going to do the room lifts and searchables and make some rooms and have a random room selector when you exit.

http://www.sumea.com.au/sumeachallenge/programmer1/deformedstickfigurem…

Instructions in readme.txt. Win32 native executable. Requires DirectX 9.

hey Gooberman...great game!

love those programmer graphics!

are those "salt shakers' meant to look like Dalik's?[:D]

Good work. Brought back memories of my C64..

It's too hard!

I agree! Either I've lost my 'l337 Impossible Mission skills, or this game requires some extreme pin-point accurate jumping skills [:)] There are a few objects I have no idea how to search without getting killed - damn it [:)].. The scream of death = classic.

Great work. It felt pretty much identical to Impossible Mission (apart from the visuals, but if you had level dsigners and artists to do the content, I'm sure it would hold up to the original!), and you did it in 48 hours!

quote:Originally posted by redwyre

It's too hard!

Stay a while! Staaaaaaaaaay FOREVER!!!!!!

quote:Originally posted by redwyre

It felt pretty much identical to Impossible Mission

w00t :)

Hint: you don't need to be completely standing on a walkway to be standing on it. You can hang off the edges. Once you're completely off the walkway though, it's fall time.

If you think the game really is too hard, here's a complete solution for every single room (yup, that's right, all four of them).

Room completions are based on the player starting from the left side, however you can adapt these strategies if you come in from the right side.

Room 1:

Jump over the robot coming towards you and search the bookcase on the far right side. You can search it completely before the robot gets back to you. Go up to the top of the room and time your descent down the middle lift so you don't get zapped. Search those items. Go back up to the top and come back down on the lift you came up on. Now the fun part. You need to go backward and forward from side to side along the bottom getting the robot just above you to follow you to the edge of the walkway he's on. Once there, speed to the opposite side, go up the lift, search the TV there until the robot is right close, and go back down and repeat. You'll eventually get both TV's fully searched. Exit out the right.

Room 2:

Go up the lift in the middle of the room and search the two bookcases, dodging the robot as it does its patrol. Go down the lift on the right hand side of the screen. When the robot's laser isn't covering the picture down there, position yourself slightly over the gap and start searching the picture, making sure to get out of the way of the robot once it starts to turn. Repeat until it's searched. Go up as far as the right hand lift will go, search the fridge, jump off the edge to get across to the TV and lift on the left side of the room. Search the TV. Time your ascent on the lift so that you don't get zapped by the robot. Exit the room to the right.

Room 3:

This room is pure timing. Search the items and be careful to avoid the robots as they come for you. Exit to the right once all items are searched.

Room 4:

Go up the lift to the picture. Search the picture. Wait for the robot to the below and left of you to move to the elevator and fire his laser. Once the laser has finished, jump. You'll make it over and avoid the robot. Go up the lift and search the TV on the way up. Jump over the gap and search the bookcase. Go down the lift next to the bookcase and search the TV on the next floor down. Time going down to the next floor so you don't get zapped by the robot and search the fridge. You can now proceed to exit out the right side and go all the way back to room 1!

How about missile command.
Endangered species: EVERYTHING
CYer, Blitz

Just pick up mame or a c64 emulator :) gave me heaps of ideas.. (I want to do too many things now!)

A.

Okay I think I've made up my mind.

My game will be "Simian Rescue". A save-the-monkeys version of "Lunar Rescue" with some elements from "Choplifter".

Project is coming along nicely, had original features working earlier today, spent this afternoon implementing some new (cool) features. Spent the last couple of hours tweaking gameplay, trying to make it actually fun. Might add some new technical features as I'm fast running out of things to code.

I still have artwork and sound effects to worry about..

Actually thats a good point.. How the hell am I going to come up with these sound effects?

*Practises helicopter voice*..

Okay.. 24 hours to go.

Game is playable. All features in original design are completed plus some extra stuff. Game seems stable and is fun to play (although I need to tweak the difficulty.. its kicking my arse).

Artwork is a major concern. I've bodgied-up a chopper for the player but I still need to do a few models and sprites to make the design work. A background sunset would be nice also.

As far as the next 24 hours, I may come up with some new technical features or I may just polish off what I have. Who knows, the night is still young and my coffee mug is still full.

Game is finished and available for download in the official submission thread.

My current top score: 20 Monkeys!

I have decided.. Sopwith 3D!

Save the cows!

ok.. alia and MattD are already doing sopwith, but have stated that they don't mind me doing it as well....

So, if I can't find something else to do, it shall be sopwith.

Cool!

Im interested to see how you attack it differently :)

Not looking good :/

After numerous problems I am way behind schedule.

told you, you shouldn't have slept [;)]

don't worry, i'm probably more behind. have only had a chance to work on it a couple of hours last night, and won't be able to start till about 6 tonight.

Well... I kinda gave up half way though, which turned out to be a good choice because I had to do some other stuff. Anyway, I intend to finish the game, but due to lack of free time that may take a while.

just curious to know what programming languages everyone is going to be using...i assume most of you will use C++, but I'm going to use Java because I currently know how to work with it better than C++...

I'll be using C++, and directx.
Hmm, as far as java goes, i think having a decent JVM should probably be added to the standard system. Didn't think about it before, but theres no hope that you're gonna include the jvm installer in your 5mb package :P
*goes to edit the rules*
CYer, Blitz

yeah i'll be using C++, OpenGL and FMOD, still tossing up between GLUT and SDL. (SDL - familiarity, GLUT - i won't have to write a stuff to do fonts for me)

You don't have to include the whole JVM installer in your package, you can just include the JVM executable (then just make a batch file that launches your java app with the executable), which to my memory is about 1mb, though it is against the license to distribute it like that (though i don't think anyone would really care).

I'll be using Allegro for some very simple graphics, I doubt I'll get time to work on sound at all. Gameplay will be my focus as balancing everything might be an interesting task in what I have planned, 48 hours doesn't leave alot of time for play testing!

Kane: are you going to be compiling to a native executible?

i was thinking about using c# and managed directx
because its a smaller file size, faster and better smaller structured code.
but it means that everyone needs .Net v1.1 runtime, and managed directx so i might give it a miss.

yay allegro! allegro ruled back in the day.

we're going C/C++ OpenGL, SDL, fmod and a few other bits n pieces (maybe libpng and plib's basic font library (compiled in)). thats quite dependent on time however..

just wondering, are we (alia and myself) the only two person team?
or are there some other teams hiding out there?

Matt D

I'll be going C++/DirectX/fmod.

redwyre: to be quite honest i dont know how to compile to a native executable...i will look it up and give you an answer soonish...

If you're going to use java, may I suggest that you go grab jikes, IBM's java compiler. It is far superior to Sun's compiler and I am sure that you can create executables from it.

Generally IBM has better Java utilities than Sun since they are much larger, and more of their revenue is from Linux/Java than Sun's.

ok thanks...

um.. anyone know any free simple 3d programs that export to .3ds?

milkshape 3d
[url]http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/index.html[/url]

Oh, and it comes with 2 directx exporters too!

Wow! Just hopped onto Sumea Chat tonight and it's overrun by challenge programmers! Hop on here http://www.sumea.com.au/SumeaChat/login.htm [:)]

heh, well its over :) everyone have fun? hows everyone feeling today?

we're a little dissapointed we didnt finish, but how did you lot go? theres some rather neat games there :) oh, and blitz, i like the format, a lot, maybe another one later in the year when our bodies have recovered from the caffine abuse?

we're going to finish redcamel, we'll let you know when we're done :)

Matt D

the most fun ive had on a weekend for a while. and today? i feel very satisfied and also a little tired.

i like the whole 'hack a game in 48 hours idea' but... i would really prefer a challenge that lasts a month or so, it really opens up more options for the type of game that can be made. as it is, the number of different games and genres (that are feasible) that can be done in 48 hours is quite small.

my 2 cents [:)]

well so far I've tried monkeys & choppers, stick man vs salt shakers, disco stu's monkey basher, and sopwith: the return - very impressed by how fast everyone got these out, had a lot of fun going through them. Great job everyone, very impressive!

Oh and one last thing... you're all insane and have no lives to be coding over the weekend 48 hours straight [;)]

Wow! I gotta say.. im uber impressed by everyone elses submissions...

Its hard to let go at the 48hr mark eh? (just a few more tweaks!)

We (MattD & I) are going to spend some more time and actually finish the game... (we'll put a new link up when its finished - and keep the orig there too).. it seems like a good oppotunity to have something _finished_

onwards an upwards eh!?

:)

quote:Originally posted by J.I. Styles

Oh and one last thing... you're all insane and have no lives to be coding over the weekend 48 hours straight [;)]

er.. yes, too true.. insane is good.

A.

ji: dont forget to try ss

Well done to all those that finished! They're all pretty nice. I'm a bit disappointed that I couldn't get anything to work, but I haven't completely given up ;).

Anyone intending to clean up and finish their games for final versions?

quote:Originally posted by J.I. Styles

Oh and one last thing... you're all insane and have no lives to be coding over the weekend 48 hours straight [;)]

heheh, suckers ;)

I've tried all games now. Well done guys, they're all great!

I may polish mine up a little more sometime. It could use music & sound effects. Game could be a little brighter as well: I developed it in the dungeon that is my room, thinking the brightness was about right and tested it this morning at work next to a window [:)]

I'm all up for another contest later on and agree with shiva about longer times. Maybe not a month, though. I'd suggest 1 or 2 weeks.

And yes, we're all insane.

About the voting - I think we'll start that sometime next week after Kez (and someone else?) complete their entry. They're doing the 48hour challenge this weekend.

Also well done to everyone as well. Some really playable and fun games entered!

quote:Originally posted by alia

Its hard to let go at the 48hr mark eh? (just a few more tweaks!)

I let go at the 46 hour mark :P

Home in an hour, will finally get to try everyone's submissions then.

quote:Originally posted by redwyre
Anyone intending to clean up and finish their games for final versions?

yes.. absolutely.. im hoping we'll have a properlly playable version this weekend actually..

the longer comp thing is an interesting idea, but heavily stacked against those of us who work fulltime (and on w/e's) although we'd still probrably enter anyway :)

and mad? we're completly crazy...

Matt D
-= did i mention i wrote most of my code wearing a propellor hat? see.. totally sodding mad! =-

I work fulltime but I wouldn't let it stop me from competing. It just means less sleep. Perhaps I can invent some kind of caffeine-producing bionic implant.

fulltime work? pfft
thats not the right kind of attitude is it? [:p]

yeh twas pretty fun and kool...i honestly didn't spend that much time on mine, partly becuase its such a basic game compared to the others, and partly becuase I was out for most of the weekend! and watching movies!

but im uber happy with how it turned out...gonna keep working on it, give it some sound and levels etc.

I find it interesting that lots of ppl immediately associate our disco character with Disco Stu from the Simpsons :) probably not entirely a bad thing, but perhaps he needs a name.

Because I'm lazy, I'm going to post my thoughts on the games in here instead of in every single thread.

Red Camel (alia and MattD):

Can definately tell it's unfinished. Would have been fun with wrapping levels and firing enemies and such.

Ignorador (Barry Dahlberg):

This is really cool. Proof you don't need big ambitious designs, just a few simple rules to make a fun and addictive game.

Columnz (Blitz):

w00t! Columns! The controls are a bit unresponsive, would have been great with more time and polish.

Super SprintF (kalin and shiva):

Pretty cool. Brings back memories of the C64. Just need a second player willing to crowd around the keyboard now :P

Chaemelaeon Chaos (Kane):

Haven't played it yet. Need to get a Java Virtual Machine.

Studio 48 (Koden and Stoffle):

Cool. Doom sounds :) I agree, that is a very nice level format. I would have used something similar myself for my game if it wasn't for the fact that I wanted to define behaviour per robot and waypoints for lifts.

Simian Rescue (TheBigJ):

Cool. Not enough going on though, so it gets kinda boring.

you and your damn verlets :)

itll certainly be cool to have a finished project :) its quite scary how much we're both looking forward to spending 48 hours not sleeping, consuming what must be illegal amounts of caffine and sugar and generally making sure that monday at work will be totally hellish :)
im planning on taking photos of the progress and what not, it should be fun! (oh boy do we need mental help)

now, back to brushing up on SDL, OpenGL and the niftyness that is rending to textures...

Matt D
ive got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbells

Damn, you coder people are nutty [:)]... please get some sleep some time!! I saw Gooberman post an update at around 4.am, and I was getting concerned. hehe

well its dissapointing not to be complete after 48 hours.

but its pretty amusign that we got red camel further than we've got our engine based game in almost two (very part time) years :) we plan on properlly finishing the game (as most of it works) and re-releasing it then.

ive got some photos to put tommorow night too :)

Matt D

well its really starting to take shape now.

its stable, its playable, and most of the features are in. just bombs and some firing issues to fix. sound to add and a few nicities to fix up. we'll have a new binary up tommorow night (different link to the submission) if anyones interested :)

Matt D

So I take it that we can make simple placeholder art before hand? (ie. will all get replaced)

I don't see any problem with that, as long as everything that is in your submitted version was made in the 48hrs it's fine.
CYer, Blitz

Just starting right now so my entry might be a bit late. I'm making a space invaders sorta game, but with whales (actually, i'm not too sure yet, we'll see what happens once i get into it)

okay, i'm not gonna get this thing finished by tonight. i really didn't get much time to work on it this weekend (about 6 hours) so i'm gonna give myself an extension 'till the end of Tuesday

[:p]

also, my game has evolved into a "shoot the harpoon ships before the whale".

wooooo![:D]

But u ca use ur own computer, u will only need the net to upload! ha ha HAR[xx(]

Chamaeleon Chaos! is coming along ok...still doing the basic functionality, going to start making the graphics now...

This is totally fun by the way!

kane i played ur game through command prompt n whatnot, unfortunatly it dies after the first level (well like the window goes grey and nothing happens)

moonunit, this is kane...well its my brother typing the reply......I haven't done any more! like I said, it is basic at the moment and I wouldnt have made it much better in the time I had left...i will keep working on it tho

Just so everyone who missed this earlier knows, due to prior arrangement i am unable to take part on the 20-21st...
so instead i'll be doing my entry on the following weekend, the 28-29th.

I'll try and make up for this time lag in the product :)

Any updates on this?

Sorry i forgot to update here,
I've had to pull out of the competition due to university throwing 3 deadlines in the following week (two i only found out about on wednesday).

I still intend to develop the game after that, however it will be too late for the challenge.

sounds cool...i'll join in if I have time away from Uni...

what about BreakOut? I think thats what its called anyway, where you have to destroy all the blocks will the ball and paddle...that could probably be done in 24 hours...

cool, this sounds like it would be fun, i recently finished a game for a 72 hour competition (http://cpsbox.no-ip.com/chenpo/burger_uni.php), love the intense coding sessions.

as for rule number 5 "The competition will take place over 1-2 weeks, however the total time spent on the game should not exceed 24 hours.", how about we just pick a weekend and everyone can work on it then (since most ppl have jobs/uni)? also, not sure about the 1mb limit, especially if we want to have funky sound and art.

i like Kane's idea of breakout, i would prefer a breakout clone instead of tetris

anyway, i'm all for this compo!

The idea of putting it over 1-2 weeks was to give people who can't spare a big chunk of time to work on it a chance. Although, most people could probably spare a weekend, but a weekend and a solid 24 hours may eb two different things :P
The 1Mb limit was more to not hurt poor 56k'ers (like me!) as much as anything else :P this would be negotiable i guess if you want to use high res textures or something :) But i think at least keep it under 5mb, because they do all add up.
A couple other game ideas are space invaders, missile command, pong, asteroids.
We could either assign people a random game, or let them choose (probably better). Call it the "Sumea 24hr retro challenge" or something :P
Also, i'm think the original No.1 rule is a bit harsh. What i mean is that the game should obviously be a "very simiar" game, but you can add new gameplay features etc. But poeple should eb able to look at it and go "Hey, thats a clone" etc.
Another idea for this or a future similar challenge might be to get that programmer/artist double going. The programmer and artist get together (email/icq/irc etc.) decide what graphics are needed etc.
The artist has 24 hrs (?) to do the graphics, and the programmer 24hrs to make the game with the artists graphics.
I also like to think of this maybe not so much as a challenge with a winner, but more like the "Quick Activities" thing. If it's gonna be a challenge, we need a bit more specific goal than just "make game X in 24 hrs" :P
Anyway, still just throwing ideas around.
CYer, Blitz

how about we don't specify what game has to be made, but just a theme, for example "trees", then we could get a bit more creative with out entries. Also, maybe instead of making it a "24 hour challenge", we make it a "weekend challenge" and just spend a whole weekend on it (as much or as little of the weekend as we like). I'm not too big a fan of the 1-2 week thing because i reckon it'll take some of the fun out of intensly trying to make a game from scratch in a short amount of time.

Also, for this one, i reckon we should just have it programmer only, the artists have had enough of their own challenges and stuff :p

Sounds like a great idea! You guys should have definately jumped in when Zaph was proposing a small challenge a while ago (complete with prize!). Hopefully this will get some action happening with all the coder types around here.

i like the theme idea...it'd be fun to see what sort of a Pong clone they can make with trees...[:D]

what about programming language? will we get a choice of what we can use?

yeah i would say there would be no restriction on programming languages and api's

I'm absolutely keen, whether I can join or not depends on when it happens though. I'm in the middle of shifting countries...

Okay, so this seems to be what we have so far.

The game must be done in a single weekend (start perhaps friday night, entries in by midnight sunday)
You can use any api's etc. you want, but it must be done from scratch. However, we need to consider file sizes etc. if you use an api that others may not have runtimes for (SDL etc.).
You can use any programming language. It should compile to some sort of executable though.
It should run on windows. (Preferably without requiring an emulator! :))
You have to do your own art!, sounds etc.
You can choose any (retro?) game you want to clone, but you must incorporate the specified (TBD) theme into the game somehow. You can get creative with how you clone the gameplay etc.
Max. file size TBD
Looking good so far.
CYer, Blitz

sounding great...

any ideas for a theme?

what about mooses? [:D]

sweet. how about we set the file size to < 5mb (zipped).

so should this be just a quick activity thingy, or like a challenge with winners and stuff? if its a challenge i reckon the programmers (and other sumeans) should vote for the winner rather than having judges and things like that.

how about "mice" for a theme?

add fmod to the list of audio libs

better keep the theme to something us coders can draw... remember what programmer art looks like.

also, not this weekend or next weekend... or i'll personally remove livers with coffee beans!

Kezza, with the most recent printing of the rules, you can use any libs/api's you want. However, bear in mind that fmod,openal,sdl, etc. are not as common on PC's as opengl and directX. So, you *may* need to package the libs with your entry, or we'll need to have seperate downloads for the extra libs people use...
I can draw a mouse or a moose!!! Although other people may not know what it is by looking at it :(
CYer, Blitz

yeh, i wont be able to do it these next couple of weekends...starting uni and all i gotta get myself into gear...

and i reckon make it a challenge...

will we get voted on based on our source code, cos im no were near the same level of programming as most programmers on Sumea...my code will do what it is supposed to, but will be a total mess cos of my newbieishness...

Kane, i disagree
it's a 48 hour programming challenge... everyone's code will look like "100% pure ass"(TM)
because there's no time to make well designed code if you want to produce something by the end.

besides, how do you judge source code?
sifting through each person's source will be a long and painful exercise if we get many good entries

-- edit : my spelling rocks, ... no really!

Oh! another thing
no one mentioned this earlier, it's limited to one person per entry right? I'm wondering if allowing 2 person teams would improve things.

My point is that without a starting engine, most of these "solo game jam" things don't produce many finished games. This could be kinda discouraging for the newer coders amongst us.

Hey, it's not like you're trying to make doom 3 in a weekend!
You're just trying to make a very simple game ala tetris/breakout etc.
Although, i would suggest that if some less experienced coders might want to pair up (perhaps with a more experienced coder?) that would be fine.
And yeah, voting will be done on the gameplay/how bad the art is etc. :) No-one cares about source as long as it works :)
CYer, Blitz

damn...theres goes my idea for Doomtris...[:D]

well, I can't wait to start...now we need to come up with a theme

World dominmation is a nice theme

that would be good...mad scientists ahoy!

Just wnated to note....

I know some of the LaMothe books have games in them like breakout (breakaway?). Not sure if you want to try and keep away from a game that you can copy and paste from a book.

I think we should have a general theme (like "pants") or base game that must be re-invented, not cloned. That should make copy/paste impossible enough

that sounds fair enough...

[;)]

quote:Originally posted by Kezza

Kane, i disagree
it's a 48 hour programming challenge... everyone's code will look like "100% pure ass"(TM)
because there's no time to make well designed code if you want to produce something by the end.

That sounds like a CHALLENGE!@ HAVE AT YOU!

now now guys...if you're going to fight make sure there is plenty of blood...[^]

Just a suggestion - feel free to dismiss it since I don't really have a clue if it makes things easier or not, but what about using a local engine like Hemiware's Serenity engine? So you don't have to bother about rendering and whatever, and just concentrate on the game code and game mechanics?

quote:Originally posted by Souri

Just a suggestion - feel free to dismiss it since I don't really have a clue if it makes things easier or not, but what about using a local engine like Hemiware's Serenity engine? So you don't have to bother about rendering and whatever, and just concentrate on the game code and game mechanics?

Well, from my experience with 3d engines there's a steepish learning curve associated that is well longer than two days.
I'd say that the advantages of using a prepackaged engine would be greater for a project of larger size and scope than the ones we appear to be planning to do.
If you plan ahead what you're going to do before the competition starts, you'd probably be able to get a working minimalistic engine running in only a few hours that should see you though. It just wouldn't be extendable enough to write it into being a hl2 sized game that's all :)

a side note, if anyone remakes hl2 from scratch in 48 hours they should win instantly. (if they can also prove they wrote every line of code)

quote:Originally posted by redwyre
That sounds like a CHALLENGE!@ HAVE AT YOU!

Looks like red will be handing in some UML on paper instead of a game [:D]

Isn't the serenity engine ps2 only atm? :)
and yeah, it'd be quicker to code up a simple 2D thing from scratch than learn how to work with a new engine in 48hrs (of course if you already know the engine it's a different story).
CYer, Blitz

It supports PC as well. I think doing something for the Serenity engine would be great for a future comp, and it's definately something good for the portfolio as an example of your capabilities to work on a someone else's engine or a middleware engine..

Just wondering if it's ok submitted the way it is ?

How about working with the trial version of Hemiware's engine as the renderer?

well seeing that no ones got time to do this contest, maybe we should think of something really simple..
how about break out(arkanoid) or even better pong.

Pong? I wrote a version of pong, you may need to dumb it down, but that far?

Pantmonger

lava_monkey - you got any better suggestions as to how to promote coding stuff on this site?

maybe a HLSL challenge or something

If it still floats ppls boats to do graphics stuff...

Yes because we all know your graphics programming skills define who the best coder is... :P Personally, I'd like to look in to scripting... a nice scripting system will be great for everyone IMO.

well maybe i shouldn?t have said pong, that was just a joke.
but i could do a cool arkanoid, just cause its a simple game, dont mean you cant make it cool.
something like a simple arcade game is what i was getting at.
too bad no one made any water, except redwyre. cause i wanted to make a cool little pirate game, then we could
make it multiplayer later and have networked pirates, roaming to open seas, looting and plundering. yar..

i think the main thing we need to do, is find something abit simpler, something that everyone can do in maybe a week, and then set the deadline for 3 weeks.

The competition isn't over yet.

I was going to sugest working in small teams (1-3 people), though it seems alot of people are busy with lots of previous commitments.

The programmer challenge is nice... but what i want to see is a team challenge. However, the problem of programmer time is a major issue in this.

Yeah I'm pretty much out of this competition. My swot-vac is the week leading up to handing the thing in, and I've got 6 exams in 7 days :) Plus I'm not one of the lucky people who have a billion lines of code of framework (all my old DOS code obviously doesn't count for garbage anymore :))
I might just do a demo effect involving water outside of the competition sometime, and post up some nice readable code :)

I hear ya Maitrek, the cut-off date is smack in the middle of my exam period as well. I reckon it would be a good idea to tweak the cut-off date for the next competition to be "uni student friendly", since there seems to be a number of us here. Cut-off dates like 1st August and 28th Feb would be good since they are the end of the winter and summer breaks.

What about if we just extend this one by 2 weeks or so?

I'm all for an extension, but it seems a bit tacky to change the date this late.

What kind of challenges can be done with teams btw? Just wondering. I can think of a few, but I'm not sure that working in teams allows different types of challenges to be done, maybe just "bigger" (content wise) challenges. It has some advantages in that respect, but it disadvantages some people.

I doubt anyone will mind an extension, if it means more entries then I'm all for it. (And Maitrek, you could always use my "billion lines of code of framework" ;) )

Teams might be a bad idea - there's only two or three individuals to my knowledge that have done anything for this water demo beyond opening their compiler and writing a quick framework. Take the mod scene. Projects usually get canned because some vital team member or other hasn't got the time or whatever other reason.

Should we extend the current programmers challenge? You guys do know that the closing date is in 5 days.. [:)]

ah 5 days is heaps of time..
think i better start soon but.

Well all I can say is I'm out.
I've still got 5 database pracs to do, two programming techniques assignments and a computer architecture essay to write and I've only got a couple of days at most and an exam tomorrow :)
So I'm fairly 'busy'...

(I'm not complaining though, it's my own fault - anyone who has a semi-organised life should be able to easily enter this competition - and if you don't, then you suck just as much as I do ;)

...I suck too :P
CYer, Blitz

me too, probably even more...and i've only got 2 exams this semester, funny how i manage to give myself the same sort of stress every semester, you would think i would learn after the first semester of cramming for exams. nope, its happened every semester (on my second last one now as well). why oh why... i don't like exams. i am tired and its only 7:55pm. anyway, back to studying with Mr. Fourier.

lol - it's good to know I'm not alone (^_^)

This challenge is not a bad idea, but I think to make it more worthwhile (from a code perspective) is to make the challenges follow on from one another, requiring that you DONT make 'demo' code. What this will do hopefully is build up some nifty code that everyone here can use. (ie. like writing an engine). Otherwise it's just a waste of time IMO, if the code is not usable (most demo code isnt, except some specific bits).

Just my thoughts.

You should've read the discussion thread that's a bit further down before posting, there *was* some toying with the idea of demos that followed on, but it was rejected.

I dont think it was actually rejected, it just wasn't the major concern. Everyone should be writing modular code, so combining all the resultant code should be easy enough.

quote:Originally posted by Maitrek

You should've read the discussion thread that's a bit further down before posting, there *was* some toying with the idea of demos that followed on, but it was rejected.

I did read it. I just wanted to comment [B)]

quote:Originally posted by Souri

Ok, starting a new thread with the rules..
Same as Redwyre has written..

SUMEA PROGRAMMER CHALLENGE #1

1. Challenge: Water mesh must be created dynamically, if indeed you choose that path. You are allowed models for objects that may interact with the water, etc.
2. Hardware spec: Must be able to run on minimum gf2mx. That means selecting software vertex shaders and disabling pixel shaders when nessisary. (The maximum vertex shader version on pre-DX9 hardware is vs1.1, however higher versions can be run in software.)
3. Entry Size: 3MB limit (ZIP or RAR), this includes all libraries needed other then DirectX or OpenGL. (ie. fmod, glut, etc).
Should be able to run after being extracted from the archive.
4. Tech: You must provide a way to turn on and off wireframe rendering of the water at runtime.
5. Source: All source code relevent to the simulation must be submitted in a seperate ZIP or RAR file. (There is no reason to MAKE people give their entire source tree, however they should be free to do so)
6: Entry must be submitted by midnight Sunday 15th of June. Details to follow on how to submit.

Note that if you code an effect that specifically requires pixel shaders, #2 will be waived. But if people can't watch it, they can't vote for it.

7: Submit source code of water routine, and not the engine code? (sorry, I'm not a coder :).. anyone want to write the 7th rule about source and I will update it here..

quote:[i]

SUMEA PROGRAMMER CHALLENGE #1

1. Challenge: Water mesh must be created dynamically, if indeed you choose that path. You are allowed models for objects that may interact with the water, etc.

(lets try sending that again)

Is there anywhere that actually tells you what the challenge is ?
From the rules I can infer that it is to do with water (but it says "If indeed you choose that path" - so I'm confused)

Can someone point me to the actual challenge description ? I'm sure it's around somewhere

Thanks,
Zaph

I think the challenge is designed to be very open. What it's saying is that water modelling must be done dynamically (at run time), not statically. If a mesh is used, it must be created dynamically, and similar for other forms of water modelling. If you are using particles I'm sure they'll let you get away with some static textures and whatnot. Just use common sense and keep statically created stuff to a minimum and argue with the judges later :)

quote:Originally posted by Maitrek

I think the challenge is designed to be very open. What it's saying is that water modelling must be done dynamically (at run time), not statically. If a mesh is used, it must be created dynamically, and similar for other forms of water modelling. If you are using particles I'm sure they'll let you get away with some static textures and whatnot. Just use common sense and keep statically created stuff to a minimum and argue with the judges later :)

So what is the actual challenge ? I still don't get it!

I guess if you weren't in the discussion when the challenge was created you are kind of left out of the loop :-)

Is the challenge to create a water effect, or is it something else ?

Zaph

Yeh a water effect,
Like some waves or something...
Or if your feeling really tricky, water colliding with things
we left it pretty open so everyone could join in

Yeah looks like that most important part of the competition spec was overlooked...it's only just implied in those specifications above.

Damn, i really gotta keep up with the deadline..

Well from what I know, best bet is to generate everything and simulate water.. shouldnt be too hard :)

Well, there hasn't been any entries, and the deadline has passed. Shall I declare this challenge dead and buried?

To be honest, I would say so :)
I guess either the programmers around here are very lazy (that's the category I fall into) or they feel that this isn't a decent arena to promote their work and they probably are doing "other stuff" (as they like to call it), like making code framework that they'll hardly use for projects that will never happen etc etc...

Also I don't know if anyone knew where to submit the competition entries. There were a couple of posts relating to submitting stuff lying around the place.

quote:6: Entry must be submitted by midnight Sunday 15th of June. Details to follow on how to submit.

Did you follow up on that one?

I was hoping to secure some more webspace so challengers could upload it onto here, but since no one has asked about it at all, I'm guessing no one was really up to that stage anyway...

I had no idea how to submit the stuff properly, so I started a thread asking that same question, but had no replies. Look under "my water submission". I've finished a water effect, but need to know if it's ok in the format that it is in. (u can downlaod it)

Cheers
Michael Swan

http://www.ioi.dk/Homepages/thomasj/resources.htm#_Fluids

ahahaha that blows all my links away :/

guys, i think this would be really helpful (ripped from the news page of GameDev.net):

"GameDev.net's own Yann L (moderator of the "Graphics Programming and Theory" forum) will be giving an IRC lecture on "Realistic Water Rendering" on Wednesday, April 23rd at 6pm EST (GMT -5). The lecture will be held on the irc.afternet.org server, and in channel #Lecture. The previous lecture by yours truly got around 70 listeners at one time, and the logs from this lecture, and others, can be found at http://www.andyc.org/lecture/. We hope to see you there!"

damn... missed it, but the logs are real nice ;)

Steal our stuff, dear god noo... lol
I'm sure the artists would help out with content to help fluff up your codey bits.

hey i would be happy to throw those unused models the programmers way,
all that time making them and then nothing happenening with them is kind of frustrating,
im sure most off the designers would feel the same way.
its just when money gets made it gets complicated.

nannoo nannoo

A programmer contest is different to that of artists, as they can usually put up a static picture of something and make it look great, we'd have to have a rolling demo or something, which would mean more space to hold the exe's - then there's viruses etc.

We'd have to agree on programming language, api's etc, it's a lot of work I'd say.

Although just off the top of my head there's:

A simple demo showing something {glowing, shadowy, colourful, pretty, technical} using just plain C/C++ (inline assembly allowed) code, using OpenGL (becuase its a lot faster to code for than DirectX), with a timespan of about a month or so from start to completion, and the sourcecode available when the comp is finished.

More ideas need to be thrown onto that pile.

I agree with Daemin a demo like the 64k demo's back in the day, would be a great idea. (maybe not 64k)
But I don't really see the reason to set the api to be just OpenGL or just DirectX, it should be open.
As long as its C/C++ and under the set size limit it should be allowed.
Maybe a list of allowed api + libs should be made.

I don't see how "agreeing on api's, language etc etc" is alot of work :) It's just a decision.

I think the reason(s) to choose a particular API are reasonably self-apparent. Obviously there's the consistency of the back-end of the code, which takes out an element that reduces focus on the actual programmer, and also it probably allows for better code recycling from one challenge to the next.

As for space, maybe making space at a premium as part of the challenge could be a good idea. Which is why I'm thinking the challenges should all run off of one preset "back-end" that's organised before the start of the challenge and that way there is a minimal amount of people downloading the same pieces of code over and over again (this is why we have dynamic linking etc ppl!).

As for virii (not viruses :P) I think that's a little bit paranoid!

So Daemin/lava_monkey what were your responses to the 2 q's that I asked above? I think I got some vagueish answers for q1 but not q2? I'm thinking about how difficult the challenge should be given the timeframe (approx one or two months?) so that it's reasonably accessible to all code monkeys. Coding a demo in one month isn't that easy -> you'd have to invest a fair few hours to get something reasonably complete and functional.

Two months would be good, depending on whether or not there's a common back-end (anyone up for it?). On the other hand, it's pretty easy to write a couple of funcs to get your display up & running in DirectX or OpenGL.

As for a subject, it's probably best not to be too ambitious straight away. Something specific & easy, like alpha-blending, would probably be a good start.

Also, I noticed there's been like 30 reads of this post and about 4 replies other than me :P

There's one more question that I think I would like a ***broad*** opinion on.

Do we want to have a bunch of *strictly seperate* coding demonstrations that could maybe be spliced into one big demo. Ie first challenge is like a waterflow problem, second is a ballistics challenge, third is a whatever -> then after x number of challenges we splice up a bit from each to form one long demo.

*OR*

or to have a set idea of a final big demo *from the start* and each challenge forms a specific part of the code base for that demo - with each challenge likely being smaller and more focussed and the code base is built up based on some kind of winning judging criteria.

There is problems with both of these ideas, and any more ideas about the aim of the challenge would be nice.

1. The problem with the first idea is a possible extreme lack of consistency in the demo, some sections may really outshine others or some sections might perform better on one type of machine than another, and hence performance disparity might reduce the objectiveness of the demonstration of some of the coders' work...

2. The problem with the second one is a lack of acknowledgement of the work of the "non-winning" entrants, and difficulty in including/promoting their work and also it might make each challenge on it's own seem far less appealing, however the end result could be more consistent and cohesive.

I personally believe that the second option is better - but that's just my opinion.

Either way, I've just had an idea for the structure of a possible programming challenge, and I'll hopefully get a draft up for people's perusal within a week, and code-monkeys can tell me whether or not they'd like to participate. If no one likes it, then bugger it, we'll have to try another approach to the programming challenge :)

I fully endorse this event or product. [:)]

Seriously though, I think it would be great to see a Sumea programming challenge happen. Hopefully you guys can get something worked out so the rest of us can finally see some of your craft in action..

Hot diggity!

I'm in! :D

I'd be glad to help out if I can still compete :)

Oh, got a bit excited there :)

1. Simple demo contest, like flipcode, etc
2. Since another demo is a great addition to any programmers port folio, I think limiting it to a few hours a week is a little harsh :)

I think people should be allowed to use their own game engines too...

Take a look at Ludum Dare's 48 hour game competition entry conditions. Instead of saying "one language, one api, etc" they let people choose from a range of API's, languages, and even platforms. They won't let you use an ?berengine that requires little or no effort on your part, but a basic framework to start from is accepted.

http://www.ludumdare.com

I agree with GooberMan with the api's a list would keep everyone happy.
As for making a set template the all the demos can run off, I'm not sure if its worth it, I can see it will make source code easier to read and help get some people started. But it might be a waste of time setting it up I'm sure everyone?s got there own way they like doing things and they wouldn't take long to setup they're own demos.
As for question 2 and time frame, a month or less would be good, over a month is abit too long i think, I don?t have too much time to spend on it myself as I?m already working on my own projects as most would be, but I still think I could get a decent demo done in my spare time in a month.
And as for what i guess is question 3, I think separate demos for each challenge is a better idea. That way the winner of previous contests isn't going to have an advantage over the rest, and the specific task for the contest can be easily judged.

So from the feedback I'm getting so far, most people would prefer to have stand alone competitions with open slather on code base/tech? That's okay, as long as everyone acknowledges the fact that if that's what they would like to do, then there isn't any really flashy/easy integrable way of showing off the work beyond this website that I can think of, which is fine as well, as long as you realise that...or can come up with an idea yourself to show off all coders great/small on this site.

The only other problems I see with the "open slather" on OS/API/front end is that the *actual programming* won't be easily judged, not many people are comfortable with handing out their source code. Also having each competition be based around a single demo effect - which could be demonstrated in so many different ways or interpreted - then there'll be the ones that look fantastic, but might just be cleverly-disguised bad-programming with some good art work? It becomes more of an artistic exercise than a specific *programming* exercise.

Plus having one "demo" per competition basically tells anyone who doesn't have alot of time to spend coding projects that don't earn a pay-cheque or any large amounts of recognition to not bother.

quote: That way the winner of previous contests isn't going to have an advantage over the rest, and the specific task for the contest can be easily judged.

An easy response to that problem is that although each challenge would eventually be constructed into one big demo, each challenge, coding-wise, would be entirely non-related to the previous challenge, even if the final product itself may depend on the previous challenge(s).

The one last problem I wanted to address is that not every coder on this site is going to be the greatest coder on the planet - that is - capable of coming up with a stand alone demo on their own in a month. Sure it's easy for the more experienced programmers to scoff at some of the things the less experienced may struggle with, but developing some coding skills, some experience and critique might be very valuable for the less-experienced coders in this forum and I'm not sure how perfectly suited that size a challenge is for them.

And even if you say "oh just give them a shit-easy challenge, it's hardly going to have any big impact or presence or glits/glamour, and hence no one will pay any attention to it.

These are just some thoughts, as far as I can tell so far, these are only my opinions, and the opinions from most people here is that we should just have stand-alone demos - if anyone else wants to chip in, please do!

Although an idea just struck me now, that we could have the first competition be one where everyone produces a plugin for winamp. That should be simple enough, would allow people some flexibility, and with the sound input it would allow for some really cool things to occur. A month timeframe should be cool, and even if people don't finish it, it would allow them to continue it as a small side project for all eternity.

Yeah that's a possibility for the first challenge :)
Dunno about the others but it's a start.

Just thought I'd bring it to ppl's attention, there is a slim possiblity there will be a demo-party in Adelaide earlyish 2004. Just in case anyone wanted to capitalise on the oppurtunity by tieing in any coding challenge with demo scene stuffs.

OK I thought I should perhaps put my suggestion forward and think the easiest way to submit a finished game in a short period of time with something better than programmer art would be to use flash. As I found that when I entered a competition using flash there was only a rather short learning curve and the art isn?t that hard to do, thus concentrating on the code can be more of a focal point. I understand that there wouldn?t be as many special effects and cool things we can all do with openGL or DirectX but at least we as programmers can submit a finished game (which I personally find more satisfying) for others to actually play and hopefully get addicted to than watching a fly through demo that our engine can make.... don?t get me wrong I love seeing peoples engine cause it gives me inspiration to keep going.
I think I have ranted enough now but I think flash could produce a finished game in a shorter time frame that can be actually played.

Sam

I'm personally not that familiar with Flash, but as far as being a coding challenge I'm not sure how well it could apply, as for making a game - I would agree with you on the fact that it could make a game alot faster from my impressions of Flash.

Personally, I feel making a game in Flash is more of a design challenge than a programming one - and unless Flash games take off real big in the near future, it's probably not the best way to show off our l33t game programming skillz either.

The real issue that needs addressing is how are we going to judge the *coding*? It's practically impossible to judge on things like style, or API, or language, as that's entirely personal preference. The easiest solution is to lay out strict rules & guidelines and see who can work best within the given framework, but that's just one option...

There's like 15 active coders on sumea yet I've only got feedback from about 4 or 5 in total, as much as it's good to have the different opinions, there's not exactly a tonne of people xercising their democratic oppurtunity....before I waste too much time coming up with a proposition for a competition, it'd be nice to get a really clear view of what every(coder) roaming this thread thinks. Hell - even the artists can chime in.

Flash!?!?! hahaha

As far as judging the coding etc... let the final product be the basis of judgement.

quote:Originally posted by rezn0r

Flash!?!?! hahaha

My thoughts exactly.

We are game coders, grow some balls.

Just my 2 cents worth..

A friend of mine who's in the biz has told me on many occasions that, as a programmer, your certificates and degrees are nice, but if you have a working game or something to show to them, then you're definately a good step towards your way into the industry..
A Sumea programmer challenge would be a GREAT opportunity for you programmers to get your stuff seen. And hey, a whole heap of industry types browse this site (even though they don't participate in the forum as much, I know they're here. Trust me [:)].
So as Maitrek has mentioned, post a msg here letting him know if you're intertested in a Sumea programmer challenge, and if there's enough people to warrant an effort, discuss something that would be beneficial for you guys. Something that's worth your time / portfolio worthy..

People that are serious about coding games, generally have written their own engine, or at least a framework. If you haven't, I suggest you do because you will learn *alot* in doing so.

Assuming only the people that enter are serious about gamedev, they will have something to work with. I think that a simple game is not, or should not, be a huge unacomplishable task. Those that don't have an engine could always use someone elses, and there are plenty of good free engines out there.

what about teams? 3people or so.
could then do a larger project with a shorter timeline and share the experience and learn from teammates.
just chucking an idea in.

*going back to pixelville.....

I'd say a no for teams, since that would involve more people, would require a larger timeframe, and the project would be more complex (not to mention all the coordination efforts involved).

Also a big 'NO' goes out to the flash idea, simpl becuase flash is a way that artists can make games, not programmers.

OK redwyre I new someone would flame me - but please.... I was just making a suggestion and I had at the start of my original post "Please dont flame me" but I thought people may be more mature than the help wanted people over at gamedev. I would be more than gald to show off my OpenGL skills - I was just thinking of an easy way to show off all skills involved in making a game in the fastest possible time.

Speaking as a coder for the coders, putting anything up saying use (insert web dev product here) as a game development tool is insulting.

However if you would like a challenge, I say pick up either HLSL or CG and create a Shader. To do something with a bit more funk in it rather than Straight O-GL or DX.

Oh and C / C++ I think is the desired language of choice, whilst CG enables you to skip around C++ a bit with it's own compiler does make it easier for the artists to enter without having to grasp the fundamentals of C / C++ Code first.

I myself would use DX9 as my platform of choice for a task like this.
[8)]

0xBaaDf00d

quote:As far as judging the coding etc... let the final product be the basis of judgement.

Okay, that's an obvious statement, but there are plenty of components of a final "product" that could dilute the "coding challenge" part of it. Like I said, neatly disguised crap programming with some great artwork could quite easily win over judges (whoever they may be) yet the coding part of it may have - on it's own - been very substandard and lost out to some of the less well "presented" good code.

Also - making a *game* is a very involved process, and alot of those processes have *nothing* to do with coding in general, which I feel may detract from the value of the coding challenge. I'm going to make a bit of a ridiculous statement, but the only really good way to produce a demonstration game from this site - would be if we had an artistic challenge on the site, a game design challenge, music challenge, sound effects challenge and a coding challenge all agreeing on the one big product.

That's not a very good idea, I'm personally leaning towards keeping the challenge short and to the point and keeping artwork/music/non-porogramming related areas to a minimum, rather having tons of creative content that isn't programming related and a long and involved project.

Having said all that opinionated stuff, my solution to the fact that (near) everyone wants to use their own framework, I think that for the purposes of my propsotion, I may code up some framework for people to feel free to use, or they may use their own if they wish.

"Like I said, neatly disguised crap programming with some great artwork could quite easily win over judges (whoever they may be) yet the coding part of it may have - on it's own - been very substandard and lost out to some of the less well "presented" good code."

I don't think John Carmack has ever been accused of writing good code, but his work is among the most respected. Game programming is all smoke and mirrors anyway. Presentation is not limited to art assets. The sum of the parts != the whole.

If you want a "coding challenge" lets skip the pesky game elements and write a console app.

Scott.