Job and Work Experience

You might be interested in applying for the Digital Media Internship offered by Film Victoria. You have until 11 December 2009 to apply. More information at this link...

http://www.tsumea.com/australasia/australia/news/041109/digital-media-i…

I agree with Souri and you should try the digital media internship first.

Failing that however. Keep in mind that there are dozens of students both who have completed and are nearing completing their courses to look for a job in the industry. And given the current employment situation it's realistic that not many will be moving into any studio this year.

If you feel that your work isn't up to the quality that studios require and need. Why not attend events like the IDGA meet-ups and network with other students and graduate to create some small localised teams with the intent to work on more team-based folio projects? I could never get the understanding as to why people don't band together to improve their skills past their uni or private course. It may be the case that you might not be up to snuff but that may be remedied with one or two very short term, team based projects and some due perseverance.

I agree with designerwatts on that point, independent work is the route to go in order to improve your skills. Find some other interested parties and band together and just make some games. I'm currently working with a small team on a number of games. If you're dedicated, hard-working and skilled enough you can make a bit of money this way too. If you were in Brisbane I'm currently looking for a good 3D artist to help on a more ambitious project, but I want to keep the team local.

Regarding volunteer work, it will be difficult for you to find any. Firstly, studios will have plenty of potential volunteers so if your skills, modesty aside, truly aren't quite up to scratch they're unlikely to accept you first. Secondly, volunteer work is a difficult legal problem for studios to handle. There are many employment laws that are designed expressly to combat employers expecting employees to work for free. A lot of paperwork can be generated. This is why most studios will only really hire volunteer interns and similar through government or educational institute sponsored placements where another party either handles all the paperwork or (fully or partially) pays your wages. I'm not familiar with all the options in Melbourne, but definitely check out Souri's suggestion and, if you are currently at university, talk to their career services.

Most local studios will shy away from volunteer work due to OH&S issues. i.e. its ambigious about insurances and stuff, and what happens if you get injured while on the job. i.e. paid employees have the projection of workcover. Even getting work experience kids on the place you have to make sure you have the right insurances in place.

Thanks for the suggestions guy's.

I am currently looking into the Digital Media Internship and will be applying for it shortly.

I have finished my Diploma of screen back in 2006, so i have that to back me up and i also have a bit of work experience under my belt.

I have done around 2 months volunteer work for a TV program and 2 weeks paid work rendering and texturing in 3ds max.

The work was in Sydney and i had to move back down to Melbourne because of my financial situation.

The paid work that i did ended abruptly with the boss calling me in and he told me i was "to slow" and that he had to let me go, mind you there was no indications of this during the two weeks i was there, and i was told frequently that i would receive more work when i finished what he had given me.

My fear is the same thing happening again, i am a lot faster in my work now, but i don't know what other flaws i have, i don't want to start paid work only to be told i am not good enough in this or that and they need to let me go.

I need to get in so i can understand what is required and work my way to achieve what needs to be done.

ill just have to keep pushing forward till i find a place i fit.

Thanks for your help guy's.

Keep the suggestions coming.

I am not an artist, so this is heresay more than anything else. I do believe, however, that a number of my artist colleagues and friends engage in speed-painting and speed-modelling exercises in order to improve on their time efficiency. This could be done by setting a time-limit at which point the model is complete and working on improving the quality achieved in this time, or the reverse and setting a certain quality you deem acceptable and timing how long it takes to achieve.

Do you know of any reference to common guidelines or styles of this practice in the the industry. When you're making something there is always a balance of quality vs. the clock. But what is the normal amount of time to complete asset X? or asset Y? And how do you assess the quality of a piece of work (that in itself is a mind-boggling argument) and quality vs. less of more time taken.

I consider my incredibly slow, easily distracted, and even though I understand all the principles of efficiency in modelling, and know how useful hotkeys and actions are, my body just seems to fight against them and selects shit through menu>menu>button. But I'd like to fix this too.

There are many many of us working for free right now :) Sorry, but that's not going to be enough in the current situation.

Free won't cut it guys, and it's not just because working for free is against OH&S. If you're hired for free to get some hands on experience, that is: Training, you need to understand that you'll need a mentor, or someone to train you up. This costs the time of the person training you AND the time of the person not working on another project.

You wouldn't get training from a junior; it'd most likely be from a midlevel or senior - and they're earning upwards of 50-60k. That's ~600 a week. If you're working for a 3 month stint, you can think of it as ~12.5k of investment, and if you're not there fulltime, that's money that they're not looking at keeping around the studio to make it awesomerer!

In terms of what you should do instead? Well, join some forums! polycount and gameartisans are my fav. They're full of ninjas, and there are regular challenges to get your work as good as THIS-> http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/Callofduty/images/8/8a/MW2Soap.png

yaaaaaaaaay! Train hard!

You're after an entry level job, but which role are you exactly after? It sounds like the abilities you listed is suited for game design.

You can check out our industry listing of developers in Queensland to see what studios are around there at:

http://www.tsumea.com/industries/australia/qld

Sounds more like a level artist to me?

If so, working on portfolio is your top priority. Showcasing good design, understanding of low poly modeling, texturing and shaders for game industry practice is your raffle ticket to a job in the industry.

Think this kind of art in terms of tricks and methods: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=39&t=671698&page=1&pp=50

Good luck!

I'm no legal guru, but simply putting music to gameplay is not dissimilar to making a music video, which crazy fans do for animes all the time.

Using someone elses music is more contentious because the musical industry is sue-happy. This is probably where any of your worries may have stemmed from.

And you're not really modifying to profit, but promote. All seems fine to me.

It's completely fine - be sure to acknowledge the original developers and clearly point out that you didn't work on the original game, and that you've purely used their footage as a means of demonstrating your own sound design ability. Keep it for private use (send it to developers as part of a resume, but I wouldn't host it on a public website) and you're all good.

1 - Acknowledge the developers
2 - Clearly point out that you had no associating with the game
3 - Keep it private

You know, I've never heard of a case where a developer had an issue with the use of modified gameplay footage (fan-made or otherwise). For the most part, they're pretty happy that their game is getting extra exposure.

The only times I've seen developers get a miffed is when people upload entire walkthroughs of games right after release date (Konami got a guy suspended on youTube after he put up the entire Metal Gear Solid 4 walkthrough for example), or any footage when a street date is broken (Grand Theft Auto 4).

You should be alright, as long as you credit yourself for the sound + music only, and, heaven forbid, don't start charging cash for it.

If you live in Victoria quite a few companies do internships through Film Vic (http://film.vic.gov.au/www/html/787-internship-with-a-company.asp?intSi…), they have openings twice a year.

You need to network though, if as you say you have no connections at all then your chances of breaking in a significantly reduced. Try and attend industry events like Disecta or Freeplay, get yourself known. Companies are far more likely to give you a chance and look at your folio if they have met you.

Also, there are mod/game collaborations being undertaken on this site right now, check out the Game Development section of these forums.

Make sure you have a portfolio, I'd say that is as important as networking.

Thanks guys for your advices.

Will try and do that.

Logan

From my seven years of running Sumea / tsumea, I've only heard of one studio who is/was willing to take up students for work experience (Wicked Witch in Melbourne), so you might have a rather tough job of finding one.

Unfortunately, the reasons for the local games industry for not taking in work experience students are many, but I do encourage you to try anyway. Go to our industry section, contact those companies in the Brisbane listing, and see how you go. If you do find a place, let us all here know for others who might be interested later on!

We've had a few threads on here about work experience, if you're interested, read up on them at:

http://www.tsumea.com/node/1326
http://www.tsumea.com/node/1517
http://www.tsumea.com/node/382
http://www.tsumea.com/node/437
http://www.tsumea.com/node/166
http://www.tsumea.com/node/1755

Are you in Brisbane?

Try Halfbrick Studios... while I worked there they took on a number of people in your position.

They're a great place to work too.

Check out their website and shoot an email through to Shainiel.

Best of luck!

Scott.

There you go, excellent stuff, Halfbrick!

Thanks guys :) Yeah I found this site www.queenslandgames.com < I hope thats right :L . So I rang Krome and they told me to come here. :P

Ill go check out the links and half brick. Thank you :)

shane, try halfbrick studios. They are a company that looks out for upcoming talent. also look up this place, http://www.conclavecreations.com/valhalla/corporate/index.html
they employ students and train them... hope thts helpful

Yeah mate it is :). Im going to try them today or tomorrow because I still need to talk to my mum to see if I can get there. :)

I sent them an email asking about work experience yesterday :)

Well, I don't know the current standard for animation is for game companies, but that looked pretty darn good (and it seems you covered a fair few areas suitabe for games). Having 4 years experience is also a definite plus.

It means a lot coming from a veteran such as you. Would be posting another update early next month

Very nice work my friend.

The website is clean, clear and easy to understand and the animation holds many examples that are well executed.

I would've suggested Bluetongue in Melbourne as they'll be needing to hire some contract animators to work on one of their upcoming projects. Unfortunately The position is temporary and you you'd have to relocate to Melbourne for it.

But what you have here is good stuff. I would suggest you create a small physical portfolio with a small cover letter, resume and CD containing your work and post it out. A well presented, easy to understand physical resume can in some cases get the attention of that company HR guy looking for new staff.

Hope that helps.
Cheers!

Hello everyone.

I went through a major update of my Animation Reel. This new version has footage from Weta Workshop's latest show "The WotWots".

http://pritishdogra.com

Lemme know what you guys think

Cheers

Pritish

Hey mate

I think it all looks great.. the kick flip at 0:35 i would rework or take out.. his pivot is off centre.

Otherwise good work :)

This issue was brought up big time mid-last year when employees weren't properly credited in Warhammer Online, even though they had worked on the game for many years. The policy at Mythic Entertainment was that only people still working at the end of the title were to be given creditation, which is pretty unfair. I'm not sure if there's anything you could do, unfortunately.

Anyway, be sure to check out the article and comments over at Gamasutra...

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19931

Hi,

I registered here because I've had the same experience. The company was Redtribe.

I kind of hate to mention their name, but watch out!

I worked on so much for them, and in return they leave me out of credits for more than one game.

That's standard CM/Red Tribe practice unfortunately. That guy is so dodgy, he should be locked up.

Really? I was wondering how many had their names left out of credits.

That's a terrible policy. That's like for a movie only crediting the people who do the post-production.

There's probably nothing you can do about the credits in a game that';s already been released...i doubt they're gonna patch it or recall it just to fix the credits in the game/manual!
If you're talking about the credits on mobygames.com (etc.) You can attempt to add/fix them yourself, you'll probably need to provide them with some proof that you worked on the game, perhaps providing contact details for your producer or some others who worked on the game (and have been credited) could be enough for them to verify it?

...that can be done really, as Anonymous above says. Company's have policies and credits can run to pages and pages of very remotely involved people as well as those who have made the most significant contributions. A line has to be drawn somewhere and it's a difficult one to always get right and virtually impossible to remedy. Know the game's producer! If nothing else you'll know if you're in or not before the disappointment of playing the game or reading the guide and finding that you're not.

The IGDA has come up with a crediting standard and covers a lot of the issues relating to crediting in games:

http://wiki.igda.org/IGDA_Credits_and_Awards_Committee

Its aim is to ensure that everyone is credited fairly and I would highly recommend that all Aussie studios take note of whats in the crediting standard.

Chris is a really great guy. He's worked hard to keep redtribe running and we're all very grateful for the opportunities he has given us.

It would be nice if this company actually followed the guidelines!

That's history's problem now I suppsoe.

Yeh probably not much chance of getting that amended, especially now. I think I remember some people got left off the credits out of spite on LT:AA. Dark days back then. I thought Jumper and Space Chimps credits were handled fairly though? I assume you probably worked under Damo at the time; if so, Im sure he'll give you a reference and explain what happened to potential employers.

Hmmmm...

Do you know what? History has a habit of repeating itself.

That company has poor management, and keeps producing poor quality games. Who's to say that they aren't going to leave people out of the credits in the future?

If they change their tactics completely (probably their management), then perhaps they can be trusted with credits.

Is it true that Redtribe have closed down now?

Sort of.

From what I understand, the company still exists with a skeleton staff, much like Auran of a few years back. However for most practical uses of the term, its fair to say the compnay has closed.

Yes, I second that. I even don't mind a non-paying internship position.

Don't ever tell an employer that. They'll rip you off.

I concur :P

Generally most companies will bring on most of the extra help in the months leading up to the holidays to finalise any holiday releases. As for QA work your best bet is just keep your eyes out on all the companies.
But hey, you never know when a disgruntled employee will go postal and they need an entire new QA team :)
If you have previous experience post your CV to the companies too, they will keep you on file and let you know of any openings.
But hey let us know of any leads if you come across any.

Hi, the link doesn't work :P

I am finding it a bit hard to get information out of your website btw.

Can I suggest making a products page, redirecting the user from the forum to those product page, and providing screenshot, design overview etc of the games.

Also it doesn't hurt to contact studios directly with this kind of portfolio, better chances of getting a hit.

The Thing 2:
Page: http://www.roket-productions.com/?page=thing2
Download: http://www.roket-productions.com/download.php?mode=file&file=The%20Thin…


Posts by me in forum:
Delta 9:
http://www.roket-productions.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25
http://www.roket-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=48
Valhalla's Kingdoms:
http://www.roket-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=44


Games that should be on there that have buggy links/non-released (fixing):
Valhalla: Deliverence (No great design loss here - quick game made in low quality engine)
ZeroPC (A card game that I developed, will try to get made as soon as possible)
The Thing 3 (Not released)

Your part of the way there.

Things I like about what you been doing btw.
You been very enthusiastic
You been actually putting together games, rather than just saying 'I want a job in games' and having no games to show for it.

Now what your best doing rather than asking on sumea (sumea is great to see jobs being advertised, but very few recruiting officers/ceo's read the forums directly) so it's best to do the following:

Grab together the game information you posted above, put it all into a nicely laid out word document or pdf document. Put screenshots in the word doc. Also because it seems you are making the games with others put how you been making the game, talk about your forum posts, what tools you been using to get the content into the game, mention who did what on the project etc and what area you mostly focused on. Also put in the above links you just posted into the document. Think of this as your way of advertising yourself as a skilled creative person.

Then along with the word/pdf document send zip's of your games (they are quite small) to different companies jobs email addresses. Companies to start off with who traditionally hire juniors like firemint, red tribe, transmission games, krome, infinite interactive etc.

I like how you taken the initiative and started posting. You might not get in straight away but almost all of us have gone through the endless sending off our resume until someone bit, and never looking back :).

PPS the thing didn't seem to work on my machine, I am running windows vista which may be the reason.

I've made a few Team Fortress 2 Map as well.

Any updates on your one?

Actually, I scrapped my last one after realising that my idea was a bit unfeasible and that voluminous amounts of water are not actually that great for Team Fortress 2 given the graphics lag, pyro counter and general dislike of fighting in water.

So now I'm on a new one, which is probably at 25% now. Involves a lot of downwards travelling, and even a vertically traveling payload cart.

That said, the TF2 map is lower on the priority list than finishing the GDD, Indie Game and a creative story sample.

I'm no game designer, but I say:

* Finish the 1) gdd, give yourself 30 hours and get it done.
* Reduce scope of TF2 and Maya map - use simple(r) concepts to illustrate your design philosophies. Make sure you are able to sell it easily, with some kind of graphic report with lots of pictures.
* Finish Inform Fiction.
* Don't worry about 4), 5), and 7) until you have finished or thrown out your other projects (why add more to your plate when you haven't finished your vegtables? :P )

It's a bit of an outdated list, bumped from the dead I think.

1) My GDD is at least 90% done now, probably 3-10 hours left...depending if I add more things (which I probably will). I could also use drawings in it, maybe a google sketch up level design sample? So, 3-10 hours for the v1.0 aim...version 1.x's will probably follow though =P

2) Just thought of doing that, completely spruce up the TF2 map to a point, expand points beyond that afterwards. Still haven't started that Maya map though...

3) Haven't touched the Inform Fiction for a while, working on two short stories though.

4) Actually, I've already gotten a few concepts

Here's the site: www.freewebs.com/bittman
(hasn't got the updated GDD, and screens are of an old TF2 map)

Thanks for the feedback anyway.

Can you tell me which developer websites didn't work anymore? When I was transferring developer information from the list at sumea.com.au just a month or so ago, I made sure their websites were still functional.

I'll go back over them to make sure as it was over a month since I went through the first bunch.
Just to make sure it was from this page: http://www.sumea.com.au/sdevelopers.asp
It would help if companies that were no longer 'active' had some kind of note on their page.
I will get back to you in a few days.

Still, if anyone can suggest which companies are definitely worth applying to it would help.

Cheers,
Chris

I am looking for a list of companies worth contacting in QLD, NSW, ACT & VIC

There's quite a huge number of developers in those states (it's almost the entire industry), and I think it's a bit pointless to give you a list of the best developers because it all depends on what type of work you want to do. A lot of local developers have honed their skills on particular game genres or platforms, from platformers and sports games to console and mobile phone games. What kind of games do you want to work on?

It has been a few months as I got sidetracked.
I am interested in doing character concept design in 2d with some 3d modelling & animation to back it up while developing characters.
Character & Creature design, so probably games that are fps, rpg & platform.

I have been on the DLF mailing list forum for a while and they have just collaborated on an open source list of Game Developers & VFX houses. It is still growing at the moment and hosted on Google Docs. I'll be checking that more closely in the next couple of weeks.

Do you know of DLF?
Chris

I'm out of the loop when it comes to CG companies in Sydney, but you're just gonna have to find a list and call them all up to see if they're willing to take you on. You can try some game devs in Sydney, but I'm not sure many developers will take on work experience people.