Artists

IT's called cel shading or non-photorealistic rendering. It's a way of getting 3 dimensional character to look very cartoony. It's mainly done by using a limited amount of shades of a certain colour and black outlines.

It seems to be all the rage these days, there are other games like XIII and jet set radio future. As for how to do it Ji styles wrote a tutorial on 3dtotal.com, just look under Max

thanx alot dude

no probs mate

hmm, ok dont laugh at me as i am a newb [:D]., for that cell shading, he says to create a 'standalone falloff'. i have absolutely no idea what that is. yeh can anyone fill me in please?

I dont know what a standalone falloff is but you can make a falloff by clicking the square button next to the diffuse, it's called the diffuse slot. Here's another tute if you are having trouble.
http://www.3dluvr.com/content/article/73

Couple things to note,

1) Your monitors refresh rate capabilities.
2) Your graphics card capabilities.

177" CRT monitors these days have no probs dealing with 1024 x 768 at around 85Hz. Which is what I'm running on our browser PC. Anything lower than 60-65Hz and youll probably find your eyes bloodshot and sandpaper feeling after a couple hours of solid modelling [:P]

If you have a older graphics card (geforce 2 and backwards), youll notice a big performance hit in Max etc when rotation and zooming and moving around in your 3d environment, but it shouldnt be too bad if your dealing with a few thousand tris, and the performance gets worse the higher the res you choose, generally speaking.

i've got an mx440, which is a geforce 4 i think so that should be ok, but how do i check and change the Hz

Edit: never mind, i found out how, mines is currently on 60 Hz, what does this mean, and should i change the resolution to 1024x768 and if so should i change the Hz as well.

I think most standard 17" monitors these days run up to at least 75Hz running at 1024 x 768.

Its okay running at 60Hz - most games run at that unless you purposely overide the in-game refresh rates, I just find that long periods of time staring at the screen, really takes its toll running less than 65Hz.

yeah you eyes start to catch on fire if you work on a 60hz monitor. ( i know i used to have to put my eyes out with old coke >_<)
oh and if you crank your monitor up too hight it should say out of range, if that happens dont do anything, just wait 15 secs and it should go back to normal

i got a radeon 128mb, and a LG 17" and i run at 75mhz refresh rate and res is 1152x864. and i get no problems.

i'm running it at 800*600 still, but i use 100 hz for the refresh rate, my eyes don't hurt as much anymore either.

Why are you running your resolution so low?
May as well be developing on a Gameboy.

At work I run at 1280 x 960 on a 17" monitor and at home I run 1600 x 1200 on a 21" monitor.

all the icons and stuff get to small when you do it at anything greater than 800*600

Malus : [:O] god damn, I'm not sure I could fit any of those in our office. [;)]

quote:Originally posted by bullet21

all the icons and stuff get to small when you do it at anything greater than 800*600

If you are running Windows, then just change the icon size. It really isn't that hard. The whole idea of having higher reses is so that all the extra crap will be smaller. More room in all those fancy graphical apps for working. Not for displaying toolboxes and bars.

yeah, but then the toolbars and even web pages and stuff get smaller. not just the icons on the desktop.

its not like there tiny man.... im sure you wont lose them ;)

i'm short sited and wear glasses [:p} SERIOUS

Well if you cant make the resolution higher because of your eyesight why not buy a bigger screen then up the resolution. lol [:P]

you can alter the size of most windows stuff, including icons, folder titles and web page text (provided the size has not been set with CCS). Have a good look through the various desktop setting and tinker. Other programs may not be so accommodating and will prove a limiting factor. eg- Freehand and Flash MX palettes don't fit well into smaller desktop settings and leave almost no room for viewing the actual work :(

800x600 is pretty low res for current hardware standards and most graphics programs are designed for larger desktops. 1024x768 is about standard for 17" monitors by my reckoning. As the others said - Don't below 75Hz...I find that if I am not looking directly at the monitor at low refresh rates I can see the flicker! 75hz is good, no need to go over I find... word of warning on setting high screen size and re-fresh rates- I understand that you can actually disable windows settings and set you monitor to other 'non-recommended' settings. If windows offers a screen size and refresh rate that sound too good to be true don't use it until you have cross checked with the monitor manual that the monitor can do this. damage may otherwise occur.

Just a thought- if you have a fairly new graphics card, or are looking to upgrade soon, you could look at 2 monitors- this would allow all sorts of options .eg low res for a palettes monitor and higher res for you image... and may be cheaper than a large single screen!

http://www.drone.org/

It's for Maya, so not sure what app your using.

cheers

u might want to go from 4 to 6 save having to upgrade again... until the next version

I use 4 at home, 5 and 6 at work -- in a practical sense for game art, max 5 offers an improved skin modifier, render to texture, and better uvw tools. If that's worth a couple thousand dollars to you, then upgrade, otherwise I'd suggest ignoring discreets small iterative improvements until they offer something worthwhile of the upgrade and purchase costs.

By the way, all the above improvements are easily added with free third party plugins and utils to max 4 [;)]

But does it require a much more powerful machine

I wouldnt say so, 5 takes a bit longer to load than 4 but I havent really noticed much else

Bullet21: It depends on what you want to do with the program. if you just want to model some in-game characters etc, you can use it safely on a pretty low-end machine, my old p3 700 works fine with anything up to about 20K tris, anything more than that, and its STARTS to slow down when rotating and zooming etc.

Anything about 30K tris, and its crawling, and animation becomes extremly tiresome.

However, the same goes for todays high spec machines... My fiance's p4 3.2 packs a sad when i set up massive behavioral crowd simulations etc,..

So it depends... if you just want to model and build some models for games etc,.. max 4 - 5 - 6 will run roughly the same, depending mainly on how much ram you have and various options may or may not be available to you depending on your video card / drivers. eg pixel shading in viewports etc etc.

I'm blown away about the unwrapping features in Max 5.. I don't want to bore you on how it was done in the old days (you can search for it in the forum about it), but unwrapping was such a big, cumbersome, and non creative step in getting a model done... now it's almost gone.. GONE!!! *evil laugh*

How much does it cost to upgrade from 4 to 5. I'm giving serious thought to it, and i have saved up quite a bit plus being holidays i can work more and save more.

Quote from videobytes Australia

"3ds max 6 Upgrade from Version 4.x = $2025"

You might be hard pressed to find an upgrade to max 5.x nowadays from a retailer, but you might try on ebay or some such.

There are of course educational versions to, for much cheaper.

here...ill pm.

Ever use the Bobo's File Format plugin? It can strip back newer version .max files so they can be opened in earlier versions. You can get it at http://www.scriptspot.com

Sure thing.

There are two ways. First is by using View Planes, the second is just by using planes with textures.

View Planes.

You will need to do this for every View Panel you wish to place it in as the View Planes will always face that camera.

1. Tap Spacebar to get your four View Panels to be displayed (top, front, side and persp).
2. Start in the Front View Panel. In your Panel Menu, go to View > Image Plane > Import Image....
3. Just Select the pic you want to use.
4. In the Channel Box, you can then play around with placement options. They are all in Maya units.
5. Repeat for every View Panel you want to have one.

Planes with images

1. Make the poly planes and texture them.
2. Align the planes to the angles you need them at.

The pros and cons of each. Image Planes take less time to set up, and will always have the texture on them (even in wireframe mode). The bad side is that they are SLOW. They will definitely slow your system down if your pics have a fairly high res. Keep them low res. The editin options for them are also pretty weak. Hiding them and working with them can be a bit of a pain in the arse. Poly planes with images have more flexibility and control, but you have to make that control. You can easily place the planes on a layer so that you can hide them quickly and easily (and reference them so you cant touch them). They run quicker than Image Planes but lack the level of transparency of Image Planes (you can make the whole Shader transparent, but to have area specific transparency, you need to have Maya 6 and Hardware View Panel rendering enabled). The pics on the poly planes will also only be visible if the panel has textured mode enabled. This can be annoying unless you know how to destroy shaders from objects or use CPS (Connect Poly Shape).

It is up to you how you do it, but I prefer polys with textures. Hope that helps.

thanks so much for the help :)

Aven, has once again out done himself, if you got all the help Avens given people especially with Maya, then you could get a massive books worth.

I have just helped my friend out with his Uni Assignment. He has to learn something new this year. He chose to learn 3D and he wanted to learn Maya as he knew someone who could give him a hand :p It has just basically been re-writing bits that you get with the Maya help files and the video tutes, but his teacher wants it done.

There was a lot of writing and how the hell are you meant to explain to someone what and Input and Output Connection is when they are just learning what everything in the Interface is? The major part of it is done, and I will get the URL off him and post it. It is just intended to help out those who are new the Maya and maybe even new to 3D. Anyone else will probably find it pretty boring and pointless. I know I did and I helped write it :)

He is now working a tute for modelling a realistic car. He is a car nut so that is all he wants to do. A pimped up Mazda 121 Bubble Car B)

something good if your doing tutorials, video tutorials!! (note, this captures what is on screen, very nifty)
http://www.brothersoft.com/Multimedia_Graphics_Screen_Capture_CamStudio…
also ive just actually whacked em in and yeah the image plane thing works great :)

Thanks for the link Moony. I downloaded it but I'm not too sure if I will ever install it. I have had troubles with those lousy screen grabbing apps before, so I'm pretty creful with anything like that now. Some of those older Screen grabbers really should be classified as virus' :)

That's good that the planes worked. If you have any other questions, just ask. I'll try my best to help (just don't even bother asking me about dynamics/particles :) )

Well if you dont like studio i know the name of the product that 3DBuzz use is "camtasia" or something similar, so i dunno do a google for that, might be shareware.

sorry for double post but since im allready asking my maya Qs here i thought id just add on,

when using the paint weights tool for some reason my model does not go black and show the white influence but rather stays textured, how can i fix this?

Ooo. I have never had that problem or heard of it. Can you just press 5 and go into Smooth Shaded mode without Texturing?

Another dumb suggestion, but you do have the mesh selected before choosing the Paint Weights Tool right?

Let me know if that doesn't work and I will have to try some other things. Me109 may know. With all the weight painting he has been doing :)

dw about it i got it fixed (dunno what was wrong but i just re-smooth skinned the skeleton and all was peachy *shrug*).

but now i got another problem :P
when im viewing my texture on my model (to see how its lining up and all the rest of it) theres some weird problems happening with the display
[img]http://www.vooks.net/moonunit/mayadodge.jpg[/img]

got any ideas whats wrong and how to fix it?

Cool. *shrugs back* :p

Pic isn't loading. Check the link :)

EDIT: It just fixed up.

Another odd one. It is difficult to tell if it is a mesh based issue or a texture based one. the whole front of his neck looks pretty messed up. Does it happen at all different zoom lengths or just at some points (ie: when really close up)? If it only happens at certain points, it may be a graphics card/driver issue. Try changing the res of the texture. Open up the Attribute Editor. Select the Node for the Shader (ie: lambert2). Go down to the Hardware Texturing list. Change the res for the texture and see if that helps. Failing that, could you take a grab of the model in just Smooth Shaded Mode (no texture) and put it side bu side? It is difficult to tell what is happening.

what happening basicly is that some parts of him are dissapearing as i move around in perspective mode, it happens at all angles and you can often see through him (like down one arm to the other even though there are no holes). It also happens in plain grey smooth shaded mode.

oh and aven, that is absolute jargon to me im afriad :( you need to explain things menu button by menu button as im only new to maya.

ok what-ever it is its somehow object dependant, i tried making another object and it didnt have any problems. It only started happening since i put the skin on it via the hypershade window... any ideas?

hmmmm actually how can i rid a model of its texture (but dont kill the UV layout ofcourse).

Ah okay. Now I think I know what is wrong. By the sounds of it, some of your polys don't have any UV cordinates. You can actually delete some or all or the UVs. When you delete all the UVs off a model, it will be semi transparent and not have any textures on it (even if one is applied). You may not have an UVs on the polys you are having troubles with. Just select those polys and apply a UV Placement option to them. You can then just place them with all the others in your UV Editor.

Next thing. Sorry about my jargon. If I say anything you don't know, just tell me to slow down a bit. I thought you may have a little bit of knowledge with it since you understand what the Construction History is :) A lot of people don't actually understand it.

Attribute Editor (I'm sorry if thsi is really basic).

[img]http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/tutes/ae.jpg[/img]

The buttons up the top are part of your Status Line. They can be used to switch the bar on the right side of the screen between those Windows. The Window that is up in the pic is the Attribute Editor. It can be confusing at first, but learn to use it. It is friggen useful. The tabs up the top select the Nodes that the object has. This is just a default Cube, and it comes standard with five Nodes (the last one is the global Shader). All the Attributes are listed below. They are just catagorised into different areas to help you out.

To rid a model of it's texture. There are two ways you could mean this. Removing the Shader or removing a Texture Node from one of the Shader's Attributes. Deleteing the Connection to Shader is done through Hypergraph. It is generally something that you probably wont want to do. If you want know though, just ask :) To delete a Texture Node, have a look at the Attribute Editor. You will have your File Texture Node applied to the Colour Attribute (I have just applied a checker texture). When you have a Texture Node Connected to an Attribute, the checker box on the right will change to a little box with an arrow (the Output Connection Icon). If you wish to delete a Texture Node from an Attribute (ie: Colour), Right-Click on the Attribute Text and choose Delete Connection. The Attribute will return to it's default setting. It can also be done through Hypershade by Mapping the Shader and deleting the little arrow that runs between the Shader and the Texture Node.

I hope that my wording is understandable. If not, just let me know :) You should just change this to the 'Questions about Maya Thread' :)

i know that there is not a poly on my character that has not been mapped, i made a planar prajection of him to use as a reference so i would see if that happened (which it did and i fixed during the mapping stage).

Unfortunatly i tried all those techniques (bar the hypershade one, again, not familiar with the UI enough to understand that yet) and none of them worked :( (well the attribute editor thing got rid of the texture, but the problem is still there).

sorry for double post but it seems that it only happens when i texture the object with a file of my own creation, texturing it with the maya checker texture for example dosent arise these problems at all :S

EDIT____
PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

for some reason it didnt like tga files (which every tutorial ive read on making Unreal characters has said to use) and that was what was causing the problem, dont ask my why or how but that was it. I put on a bmp version (which i needed to make anyway) and everything was peachy :D i have to re-skin him unfortunatly but hell be up in no time as the hollidays start saturday :)

ok triple post i know but another problem...

i need to detach something from the rest of the geometry (i need to take a hand off a wrist actually). how do i do this?? also make note to tell me which part to select (ie the whole hand?, the ring of verecies around the wrist? etc).

Two ways.

Way One. The longer way.

1. Duplicate your mesh (Shift+d).
2. Select one mesh.
3. Highlight the slected faces. In this case the hand.
4. Press Delete (Delete :p). You will have the mesh without the hand.
5. Repeat in reverse for the original mesh to just get the hand.

Way Two. The easy way.

1. Select the faces on the mesh. In this case the hand.
2. Go to Edit Polygons > Extract.
3. The selected, Extracted faces will now be a new mesh.

number one method:>

select the vertices around the wrist where you want to divide, choose edit polygons > split vertex. this seperates all of the vertices that you have selected....to see your effect..turn on display > head up display > poly count and then select the vertices that you previously split and you will see double the amount of vertices.

to seperate the two objects, select the model in object selection and then select edit polygons > seperate...your hand will now be seperated from the arm.....

you will then have to merge the vertices from the join....select the arm in object mode, change to vertice selection mode, select the vertices (double the number viewable)...select edit polygons > merge vertices OPTION MENU (make sure you open the options....

input a value of 0.0001 and then select the MergeVertex button... you HUD should show now halve showing that the vertices are welded...

Now select the hand in object mode...select the vertices of the border and then 'g' on the keyboard which is 'do last command' short cut..(sometimes this doesn't work so just repeat above)...

now this is the procedure i use, i'm sure theres another, possibly less complicated and winded....

number two method:>

select all of the faces of the hand you wish to seperate from the arm.

choose edit polygons > extract faces (go to the options and make sure Seperate Extracted Faces is turned on). press the Extract button.

all the faces of the hand are now seperate objects...(halfway there)

select all of these faces again (the operation reselects the arm) and choose polygons > combine.

Now to tidy up the vertices, select all the vertices of the now seperate and combined faces hand and then merge all the vertices with the 0.0001 value.

done..again

Beaten at the post...

when i try to use extract i get the following error:
Error: polySurface1 has only one piece. Ignored.

????

I have no idea why it would be getting irritated about that. Check the options on the option box when you select the action. If that doesn't work, try just duplicating the mesh and work on the duplicated mesh. I have had troubles where meshes get to the point where it will not even let me delete the history from it.

well i used the double the mesh and delete the opposites method, somethings dodgeriffic with my mesh though nowadays, the handles for the move/rotate/scale tool are at his feet (as apposed to being at the center of the geometry) and theres no extra parts or anything.

Okay. To re-centre the pivot. go to Modify > Center Pivot. Pressing Insert will also allow you to move your pivot to wherever you would like. Press Insert again the return to normal.

You may want to try Freezing the Transformations on the mesh. Select it and go to Modify > Freeze Transformations. Freezing the transformation will keep the mesh where it is and at the scale and rotation it is at. It will just make all the Transform values their default again. ie: If you have scaled the mesh up to a scale of 2, and freeze the transformations, it will stay the same size, but return the value back to 1. Some Tools and Actions needs to have the Mesh have it's transforms at a default level so it wont do crazy things.

not sure about the extract problem either, i only get that if i use separate in correctly, probably the options, just reset the tool from the options window from the edit menu

the transform handles centre to the world 0,0,0 when you sometimes do various operations, not sure specifically. you can re-centre you tranform handles by selecting modify > centre pivot.

or if you want to place your transform handles wherever you like, select move in object selection mode, hit the insert key and now you can place the transform tools whereever (holding various keys allow you to do various snaps; x- snap to grid and v - snap to vertice are the ones I use the most). hit the insert key to go back to normal transforms

thanks for the help guys, hopefully this is the last strand before i get him in game, allthough this skeleton is the death of art i tell you, i so dont like him skinny and tall.

hurray more questions :D

i wanted to know if theres something like a "merge faces" tool. I know you can merge vertecies but sometimes itd be easier if something like the above was present. Now that im working on a project with a poly count things like this have become important :P

You are making this easier and easier :) One of the biggest flaws of Maya is all of it's redundent and excessive tools. Three Extrude commands and so forth :/ Here is a general Merge Component Script. Either drag it to your shelf or make a Hotkey from it.

string $selected[];
clear $selected;
float $buffer4[];
clear $buffer4;
float $finalResult[];
clear $finalResult;
$selected = `ls -sl -fl`;

if(size($selected) > 0)
{

int $convertSelection = false;

//check if components other than vertices are selected

if(size(`filterExpand -sm 32`) > 0)
$convertSelection = true;
else if(size(`filterExpand -sm 34`) > 0)
$convertSelection = true;
else if(size(`filterExpand -sm 35`) > 0)
$convertSelection = true;

if($convertSelection)
{//get the converted selection

PolySelectConvert 3;
$selected = `ls -sl -fl`;
}

if(size($selected) > 1)
{

for ($vertex in $selected)
{//average the positions

$buffer4 = `xform -q -os -t $vertex`;
$finalResult[0] += $buffer4[0];
$finalResult[1] += $buffer4[1];
$finalResult[2] += $buffer4[2];

}

$finalResult[0] /= size($selected);
$finalResult[1] /= size($selected);
$finalResult[2] /= size($selected);

for ($vertex in $selected)
{//move vertices to averaged position

xform -a -t $finalResult[0] $finalResult[1] $finalResult[2] $vertex;

}

//finally, apply polyMerge
polyMergeVertex -d 0.015 -ch 1 $selected;

}
else
warning("Your selection should contain more than 1 vertex");

}
else
warning("Please select some polygonal components");

The Script was taken from a read me file from Byron's site (Home page - www.byronimo.de/mainpage.htm Document - sebastian-thiel.bei.t-online.de/BPTDocs/ByronsPolyToolsHelp.htm). If you have EUR-50, I highly recommend you look at perchasing his tools. They are friggen fantastic :D It will work on any Component type.

the script takes two faces and merges them into a single vertex (effectively deleting the two faces), thats not exactly what i wanted. What i wanted was to take two faces and merge them into a single face (not vertex).

Right. Thats a more odd one. I probably have misunderstood you again, but just select the edge between the two faces and select Edit Polygons > Delete Edge. You can just press delete, but that will leave any excess verts on the mesh. Other than that, I dont actually think there is a quick way of doing it. Just delete edges, merge verts and shift the whole thing around.

wait, so if i go through the menu then it dosent leave the exess verts (and create 5 sided polys and the like)?

oh yeah, what is wrong with 5 sided polys?

I never actually said that nGons are bad (5+ sided polys). I don't really like them due to that radial smoothing effect on higher poly models, but they can be useful at times. The other problems with nGons is that Maya's auto Edge turning on invisible edges can make for some very odd tesselations on non smoothed meshes (ie: game ones). Each to their own though :)

Here is the difference between using the Delete key and the Menu Action.

[img]http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/Tutes/DeleteEdge_01.jpg[/img]
[img]http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/Tutes/DeleteEdge_02.jpg[/img]

In 1.1 and 1.2, you can see that you can just press dlete and it wont leave any excess verts as there are none to be left. There is no need to use the Menu Action for deleting the Edge.

In 1.1 and 1.2, you can see what happens if you just press Delete. It leaves an extra vert that you probably don't want, and will create more tris. 1.3 shows how the mesh will end up if the Menu Action is chosen.

IMO its the end results that matter, if using splines gets you there easier and quicker than any other way, and it does the job for whats required, then build things however you want.

Its really a matter with what suits you, personally i tend to use generic shapes for low poly characters, rather than make a few splines and use various modifiers to create a shape based on those splines.

But which is the one more commonly used, and which would be faster, i think that spline seem like they are a bit of overkill but i'm just curious?

Splines suck balls.
They used to be fairly useable for high poly stuff, but then sub d happened.
One of those things that was good in their time (well, I wouldn't call splines good) but are now dated.

So do you reckon that i should just make the torso with a cylinder on my own?

It's up to you. Give both a try. You can use a cylinder or a cube (and add in detail as you need it). You could even extrude the edges. It wont actually make your model go from looking sweet, to looking like crap :) The reason why there are so many tools and methods available is because a lot of people have different workflows. Find one that works for you and practice it :)

What Aven said.

Though I think the cylinder idea will work better - just be sure to have an anatomy book handy!!
Dazzle us with an anatomically realistic torso!

quote:Originally posted by Sorceror Bob

Though I think the cylinder idea will work better - just be sure to have an anatomy book handy!!

That, or stand naked in front of the mirror and shake your "groove thang" *blows a kiss* ;)

Be sure to show us how he/she/it turns out :)

I'm a spline man for torso, arh was until now were I just shift copy edges.

I've decided to just use splines, it's worth learnign anyway, and later on i can use differant stuff, Thanx for all the advice guys.

Thanks Aven, its ordered [:D]

Hey, I didn't know Expose was an Australian (S.A) production! Hope they accept money orders. Gonna get me a soft cover at 15% off, which makes it around $50. Not bad [:)]

Oooo. One other thing. If you have some friends who are also after a copy, try to order them all at once. Ballistic have a deal where by, when you order a two or more books, the first is at the standard price (inc pre-order discounts). you can then choose to have all the other books lose their pre-order discount, but get a 20% discount. Although ordering multiple limited edition copies isn't the best idea (as you lose the 25% pre-order for a 20%), it is a great idea for the hard cover and soft cover books. I tacked a hard cover version on for my friend and it came to $59.20 :)

Have ordered Expose 1 and made a pre-order for 2, both hardcovers. The total discount sweetened the deal enough for me. Makes upgrading the puter that lil bit further away, but if they get used anywhere near as much as my Art of Warcraft book, it'll be worth it @:-)

Souri: Money orders they accept, yes.

I have never heard of these, and i've bought a few CG books, I've ordered number one and if i like it i'll order nummber 2. Just a query though, is ther 3D as well or is it all digital painting

bullet21: yeah they are both

You know Bullet. It probably would have been a better idea to order number two first as you get the 15% pre-order discount :)

thanx for the early notcie Aven :P

Yay! Just got my Expose 1 in the post. Waiting for me at the door as I took out the rubbish. What a lovely surprise. @:-D *cuddles it closely*

Thing I realised though, I know all the artists by username. Time to learn their actual names @:-P

I sent my pre-order for Expose 2. Any idea when they're planning on releasing it?

I think it is set for release some time next month. Don't quote me on that though. My mind is a little fuzzy :p

I received an email this morning saying that the master prints didnt turn out too well on Expose 2. Therefore they are having them re-printed. They will now ship around mid August :( d'artiste is also available for pre-order. So that bullet doesn't have to read their site :p, it is just a book featuring digital painters and the steps they take in painting one of their artworks. Has some really sweet artists, so if you are interested in 2d art, then it may be worth checking out :) I wasn't able to get number 69 in Expose 2, but I got it this time :D (I know I need help). www.ballisticpublishing.com

Got that same email. Guess I can take my eyes off the letter box for awhile. @:-P

Also, I'm reeeeeeally hanging out for The Art of Oddworld Inhabitants book. Probably a good thing that I can't preorder now. Must save for PC!! http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/oddworldinhabitants/

[|)]

Recieved another email about printer and binding problems. For Expose 2 and d'artiste LEs. Damn it :/ Hey Souri. If you would have been at Sigraph, you could have picked it up by now :)

I just received my copy this afternoon! o/ Very inspirational pieces of work...

I remember seeing that model at the max 6 launch in Brissie.. it was really low.. I think it was well under 2000 poly's, all the detail was in the texture

Thankaz for that information mate.

no worries!

On PS2 it's not so much the number of polys that's the problem as the number of bones.

Yeah true.. 64 bones for the ps2... but in reality thats more than enough... unless you want all your fingers working and bones in the face or something like that

Taking that a step further, its the restriction on how many bones you can have influencing a single vertex.

http://www.monitorstudios.com/bcloward/tutorials_normal_maps6.html

Have a look at that Bullet21 - tis a good explanation, and guides you to all the tools you will need to start playing around with normal maps yourself.

In its essence, its LIKE a bump map for a low poly in-game model that makes it look more detailed than it really is, and its generated from a high poly model (source) model.

[:D]

a bump map can only define "bumps" as in elevation or holes in the geometry. a normalmap is perpixel information abuot which way that pixels polygon normal would be lit, if it were a high poly model. This means you can have smooth 'hill's and curves like muscle shapes and different angles as they get steeper, whereas a bumpmap is up or down.

Here's an example where I modeled a high poly flag that fits over a 2poly lowres flag. It looks much nicer in realtime as you sway lights around it :P

Normal Map
[img]http://starwars.web.easynet.be/dungeonrumble/files/screenshots/banner02…]

In Game
[img]http://starwars.web.easynet.be/dungeonrumble/files/screenshots/banner05…]

So is it just an illusion that's created by lights, and does it add anything to the polycount of a low poly object?

Thats correct, although the example that urgrund has given, isnt really the best - as its REALLY easy to see that the flag is still flat.

But it gives you some idea.

Up above when i said its LIKE a bump map, i didnt mean it WAS one, i was merely trying to describe similarly what kind of effect it has to a smooth surface, as per pixel lighting and normals definatitions went way over my head when i was a newb. I suspect it would to many others as well.

It doesnt add any complexity to a low poly mesh. A better example is the Unreal3 dude.

High poly source model.. ( used to generate normal map for low poly mesh )..

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simages2/219_normal2.jpg[/img]

Low poly mesh..

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simages2/219_normal.jpg[/img]

Low poly mesh + Normal Mapped + Diffuse + Displacement / Bump. ( I'm assuming )
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simages2/219_normal1.jpg[/img]

You can see why theres a big fuss over it [:P]

oh sure... just go and blow my poor little flag out of existance by referencing Unreal3! :D

btw, I've had this link in the modellers section for a while. [url="http://members.shaw.ca/jimht03/normal.html"]Good explantion on what normal maps are[/url].. (link should work now)

Crytek haven't put out their tools for Farcry just yet I think, and Doom 3 isn't out either, but now is definately a good time to understand what normal maps are. (You can try them out in the AMP II engine, of course)

And don't fret by seeing hi-resolution, highly detailed meshes like the Unreal model above. Be sure to check out tools like Zbrush 2 that can help build detailed organic monsters/humans etc rather easily and fast (once you get over the learning curve). I suggest everyone check it out. [:)]

lol sorry urgrund [:D]

If I could make a suggestion re your flag, put some edging on it, and perhaps few wrinkles on that edging, At the moment with the hard solid black line around some of the edges it kinda detracts from the nice wavy part thats already there, kind of breaking the illusion so to speak !

Zbrush2 though, as souri mentioned is a great tool! get onto it! [:)]

Zbrush 2 looks awesome, the only problem is it costs around $500 US ? a bit too expensive for most hobbyists. However, the demo is available for here: [url]http://pixologic.com/download/demo_pc.html[/url]
So we can at least check it out. Should be a bit of fun for a few weeks.[:)]

That link up there is broken for me souri - for the normal map explanation.

What is ZBrush? I'm not familiar with it. I've taken a quick gander around the site, but can't be arsed plowing through pages of stuff to find out what it is.

I wont event try talking about Normal Mapping as I have never tried it, and have never completely understood it myself.

Crytek do have their Polybump tools available (the fancy name they gave to FarCry's Normal Maps), and can be viewed here...
http://www.crytek.de/downloads/index.php?sx=polybump

Maya 6 also comes with it's own inbuilt Normal Map making capabilities. Don't ask me how good they are as I have never tried them, and I don't see myself doing so in the near future. Plus, I have nothing to really compare them too... and screw your Unreal Engine 3 references HazarD :p More info can be found here, just go down to the Texturing area...
http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/maya/new/features_enhancemen…

That site was great, thanx souri, Hazard just delete the sumea address before the members.shaw.ca/jimht03/normal.html ande it works.

quote:Originally posted by JonathanKerr

What is ZBrush? I'm not familiar with it. I've taken a quick gander around the site, but can't be arsed plowing through pages of stuff to find out what it is.

Zbrush is different way of modelling, definately a more intuitive way for an artist I reckon. (btw, I'm still learning so I'm no expert or anything)

Basically, you make a rough model with Zspheres (the same idea as metablobs I guess, where you make an object up with spheres. Alternatively you can import a 3d model to work on), and then you can add/subtract dimension, bulges, details, creases etc simply by painting them on with the many tools provided. You see those veins on the arms on that Unreal 3 character up there? You could do that with displacement maps in a 3d program (paint it in photoshop, import it in your 3d program, do the uv mapping and all that) but in Zbrush, you can simply paint it directly on. A better example would be the face on that character - the brow, the cheekbones, the wrinkles on the lips, ridges on the nose etc all that detail can be simply painted on in Zbrush. Can you imagine the work needed for [url="http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=014…"]a detailed creature like this[/url] in a conventional 3d program? A big bonus for using Zbrush is that you can model creatures with millions and millions of polygons worth of detail, and it shouldn't crawl your computer to a halt.

There are tonnes of other useful things it can do that would be tedious to do with other 3d modelling programs, so definately have a look at it. I won't say Zbrush will replace Max, Maya, LW etc, it really only shines with creature, human and other biological forms. btw, Weta used [url="http://www.pluginz.com/default.php?loc=news&id=1566"]Zbrush for Return of the King[/url]..

And don't confuse it to Deep paint - from what I remember of Deep Paint (when I tried it years ago), that was a texturing program where you could paint on textures/bump maps in 3d with a variety of wacky paint tools..

Zbrush seems to be all the rage these days, for $500 US, it doesn't seem that pricy compared to other 3D packages like Maya Unlimited, or even Lightwave which is like one of the cheapest. Why's it so cheap?

From all the feature lists and the fundamental principles behind zbrush, it sounds like a wonder-tool; in reality it is a very cumbersome and specialised tool which is absolutely fantastic at what it does, and awful at what it tries to do. There are a few very basic key things that it lacks -- namely, intuitive navigation and a straight forward integration into a 3D pipeline.

What I mean by these two things, are firstly at its very core it's not a 3D package. It's a hybrid canvas painting tool, think of it like photoshop, with a depth channel (aka 2.5D) and 3d modelling and texturing tools within that. So because of this, it's not like any other 3D application, because it simply isn't one, and shouldn't be treated like it, so that's no problem. What it does mean though, is this severely limits it's use as a 3D package; take navigation -- you're dealing with a flat canvas, not a camera in a 3D space. To navigate, zoom, rotate, or pan, you are physically transforming the object, because there is no camera. you're scaling the model, you're moving it, you're rotating it to fit the canvas, which is very poor navigation (especially without perspective correction, and limited control on how you see what you're working on). Next up is its integration into a 3D pipeline. It's NOT a 3D tool, it's a hybrid, and it gets cluttered when trying to use it for just 3D work. What you can do with it, it does very well, but it's not specifically meant and specialised for that. An example is any editing you're doing to your model, after you're done, if you "unselect" it (it doesn't actually have selection), after you stop editing it, it's flattened to the canvas becoming "pixols" (2.5D pixels). So you have to export it to save it. It doesn't have a 3D scene, it doesn't have a camera, it doesn't interact within a 3D world -- it's a flat canvas that you're temporarily editing a 3D object on, which is going to be flattened into "pixols" (no longer a 3d object) because natively it's a flat painting program.

With that horrible big rant out of the way, I'd like to say it's very good at what it does, and I've been using it for both displacement and normal mapping for quite a while now, and once you get around it's hideous short comings (or what are seen as short comings by anyone who wants to work with it in 3D in any way), then it's quite a good tool to use. It's just that it's such a bad round-about way of doing anything because it's simply so different.

Because it isn't a 'complete' package. It is aimed at modelling and texturing. To do anything more, you have to have a major package to bring the project into. Think of it more as a modelling plug-in.

Just like Silo is a poly modelling program and Motion Builder is an animation program.

Edit: Er... Joel beat me to it :D

Which Version of Max & Character Studio are you using ?

i don't know about copying poses across files...
Maybe export the .bip

other than that... it's good to have a 'base' or 'idle' file of your character so that you simply load that up and start a new anim from it.

I've done a lot of .bonesplayer() work in Director3D and the anim blending is quiet good. So don't worry about the last frame of a run anim being completely different to the first frame of the jump anim... You can queue anims and they will blend nicely.

You can do it with character Studio 4, by using the save option in the copy paste menu in the animation tab, it is the little disk looking icon in the copy paste menu.

OR

Merge the max file with the animation with the pose you wish to copy into the file you wish to copy the pose too and copy from one biped to the other.

OR

Use the mixer or motion flow to add the animation to the end of the animation you wish to add the pose to and then right chick "Hold" "Drag copy" the pose to the frame you wish to copy the pose to or use the copy paste menu.

OR

Save the .bip file from the animation you wish to copy the pose from then open the other animation save the .bip from it then load the .bip from the other animation copy the pose then open the .bip you wish to add the pose to and paste the pose.

There are about 15 other ways I can think of doing this, I would do the first one if you have character Studio 4 or the last one it is the easy I think for someone new to Character Studio (and doesn't have CS 4) and would work for all version.

I'm not sure what urgrund is talking about, but it is very important for the last frame to be the same as the first in a looping animation, But when you export the animation only export from the first frame to the 2nd last, so you don't have the game animation system play the same frame two times, because in a loop it will play the last frame exported flowed by the first and if they are both the same (as they would be if you export the last frame) you get a little pause in your animation.

Thanx for the tips!!
They helped me a lot!

(max 5 and charst 3)

quote:
"I've done a lot of .bonesplayer() work in Director3D and the anim blending is quiet good. So don't worry about the last frame of a run anim being completely different to the first frame of the jump anim... You can queue anims and they will blend nicely."
This comforts me! ;)

Depends what audience you are aiming for.

NTSC has to have one of the following resolutions.

720x480
720x486
704x480

NTSC must also run at 24 or 29.97 frames per second.

Of course, any DVD/TV combo that can display NTSC will be able to display any of those combos.

PAL resolution must be one of the following

720x576
704x576

It must also have a frame rate of 25fps.

I'm not too sure about SD and HD formats, but I don't think you would be using that anyway :)

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'What format is DVD?'. Could you explain it a bit better? If you mean what video encoding must be used, then it uses MPEG-2 (file extensions are usually .mpg .mpeg. mpv. m2v).

I'm trying to find out what would be the best resolution to render my short flim out at.

If you are just after PAL authoring (Australia standard), then either 720x576 or 704x576 will be fine. Using the lower is probably best as you wont really notice those extra 16 vertical lines on your TV. You may on a comp screen though :)

Thanks for the help I will be rendering it at 720*405, and then adding letter box black at the top and bottom for different fromat (PAL/NTSC.)

Have you tried the 'multires' modifier.. It gives you so much more control than the crappy optimise one.

Anyhow, it lets you work off a vertex level.. Much more control.. Give it a whirl

Exactly what I was looking for.. thanks!

I think there's one called 'polychop', give it a google and see how it goes.

$3000 is not my final price you can offer me a lesser price. Also if you want to check the site which I won the program from you can go to
http://www.control-freaks.tv/ and I can send use pictures of the Audi I made to prove it's me.

If someone could tell me were to sell this program That would be cool to Thanx.

For $3000, I'm guessing it is Complete? You may want to sign up for an Ebay account. There are always stories of people looking for 3D apps on Ebay.

EDIT: Sorry. I actually had a look at the link. Maya Complete it is. Nice car by the way.

if i had to pick one, i would say yes from a professoinal point of view that a tablet will make the job easier. but like we've all said before, its a personal preference, if you are THAT unsure borrow someones, or look for a way to have a play with one before you buy.

I wouldnt be without a tablet now, it doesnt necessary offer more control than a mouse, but it does offer control with a greater level of speed, but once again thats personal preference.

Can i also add - if you wish to produce paintings etc like JI - you do need alot more than just a tablet and photoshop/painter [:P]

We use graphire 3 6x8's here and they are a good size.

Ok cool, thanks for that [:p].

And yes i am aware that JI has had a lot of professional experience etc... then just a tablet with Photoshop and Painter [;)].

Just out of intrests sake can anyone possibly just upload/link an image of the overall working area on a 6x8 tablet? Just a black or white background showing the overall area which can be displayed in the 6x8 screen itself (If that makes sense).

I've just given up on my Wacom tablet...words of a truly inspiring artist, ill give it to you for $5

.........actually, i'll just use it as a coaster..its in the perfect spot on my desk

I'll take that as a joke. However, i would be glad to buy it off you for $5 and i would be fully liable for shipping costs at that price [:p].

Dont just give up, im sure you'll get the hang of it eventually.

Anyway, if i dont pick one up for my birthday i'll just pick one up in my spare time someday [:)]. In the mean time im enjoying these killer new Sennheiser headphones, crank up the bass [:p].

i think he's serious [:O]

no no i like my tablet, and will not use it as a coaster....yet. I just need to get stuck into it, i need to give myself time to get used to it. Maybe for $10...

I used a tablet at a mates place for about ten minutes. Can't tell you much from that amount of time. But i hate the way ou can just glide so easily over the surface, it's kinda awkward, but im sure you get used to it. But they do look cool :P

yeh, i hate not being able to press hard, or draw on a rough surface

you can do both hobo

pressing hard.. well if you have the sensitivity settings on.. you should get different results

rough surface.. why not whack some paper over the top of the tablet... instant friction

Now that's an ideas, but will it work?

Just tested it, it will work but you will lose some sensitivity depending on the paper.

Because a)I'm lazy, and b)I'm kinda busy, I'm just going to copy paste stuff I've said in other threads because it hasn't changed [;)]

lots of stuff, and apologies for the tangents and off topics, but hopefully it answers a lot of questions [:)]

-----------------------

well, first of all realise you're getting into a completely different medium - the same learning processes in getting comfortable with this medium applies as if you where going from, say, pencil to oils.

A lot of more traditional based artists want larger tablets so they feel more comfortable since it's the difference for them with a larger canvas, between drawing with the wrist, and drawing from the shoulder. This on top of many other factors like surface friction, stylus holds, pressure ranges, scale, accuracy precision etc all have to get used to.

Take the time to get used to this new medium as you would with any other, and you'll get where you want to be in no time.

-----------------------

6"x8" is fine - that's what I use at work. At home I use a smaller cheapy thang (said all of this before in those other threads Matt posted, so I won't go off on a tangent here ). that's fine too. Everything in my website is done on that, and had no troubles at all; in a lot of ways I prefer it over the intuos 2 i use at work sad enough

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Malus

JI: drawing from the shoulder?! How the?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Getting a little off topic to begin with but...

When you say "the larger ones allow much broader strokes from you elbow", it's actually coming from your shoulder - it's a ball-and-socket joint, as opposed to the elbow only being a hinge joint. eg, the shoulder enables you to bend, twist, raise, and move everything below it (this is your forwards kinematics theory in practice right here! ).

My answer to your original question, "Tablet owners, is yours really that effective?", is a resounding "Hell yes!"

I've pretty much made a full transition to digital medium - nowadays, all I use traditional stuff for is doodling on the run, or to communicate an idea in a quick more comfortable way to someone sitting next to, or over you. Everything I show, all the stuff on my site, is all digital medium.
-----------------------------
Well first, about the floating arm question, I'll answer that before I get on to how I work; think about vertical canvas painting - you're standing or sitting with your arm out-stretched floating and painting freeform - yup, that can be tiring if you're not used to it, but you'll develop a comfortable zone with that in time.

For me personally, I've actually gone against so many years of drawing and all the art teachers in the world and draw from the wrist myself - I have a small tablet both at home and work (with high accuracy dpi), which is what I really prefer. For me it's a matter of speed and comfort. I can sweep a smooth arcing line over the entirety of my canvas in just one flick of the wrist, as opposed to moving my whole arm - over time I've learnt to work like this and refine my strokes to a minimum so I'm not "scratching" over the one area constantly but get it done first time (which is one of the big reasons your art teacher will get anal about you drawing from the wrist ). This is all just personal preferance, but it's how I've found my comfortable zone, which I think is very important for an artist, so you can concentrate on just doing the art, instead of how you'll go about the process of doing it.

ok, I wouldn't have a clue about 3d and stuff, but I would say get one, I never thought I relied on it to much, thinking I didn't use it alot, but then when I went back to townsville for christmas and didn't have it for 2 week I went mashuga!!! totally insane. I got back home and dived on it sobbibg with releif.... sortof. But yeah, just get one, I got the smallest wacom possible it's like a 3x5 active area, so its tiny but it works and it cost $120!

Plus its silver and shiny! so dont think, just get it. Then you too can sneer at all mouse bound lameos!!![:P]GET ONE GET ONE GETONEGETONEGENONEOENOENOGENO!!!! seriously dude, seriously...
oooh got carried away, sorry just haven't eaten since my bowl of cocopops in the mornign and my fingers are cold[xx(]

Cocopops are good (My 2nd favourite after Crunchy Nut), you know they have no artificial colours and 8 vitamins right?

Well atleast according to Kellogs [:p].

Well i think im going to get a 6x8 Graphire3, cheers everyone!

You can't really go wrong with any Wacom tablet. The smaller ones or the larger 6x8s are both good. I own a 6x8 intuos, but even when I use the smaller graphires, I don't really notice much difference. Just as long as it has pressure sensitivity, it should be all good.

Have fun with the tablet, but don't expect immediate results... :D

If the positions are paid i can put you onto professional contract based artists, otherwise youll probably get heaps of volunteers [:D]

Good Luck!

http://forums.unrealplayground.com/ is a good place to start.
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/ is worth a try aswell.
theres a australian Unreal ED whizz Lord_Simeon who frequents these forums: http://www.unrealtournament2004.com.au/phpbb/ so you could send him a PM

that should do for starters :D
Just out of curiosity whats your query

Thank you ver much for the links [:)]

Basically I am having troubles seperating face and body UV texture layouts in maya, I've got the two over one another and Trying to designate them as seperate texutes but tis' not working and thus I get a very warped and wrecked import into Unreal ed.

So Basically I am looking for someone who has expierence in Maya and Unreal Ed

Is there a forum here where I can ask?

those links while great focus on level editing. I need some sites that foucs more heavlily on the moddeling side of my probelm (other than www.3dbuzz.com

hmmmm, you could try polycount (cant remember the URL, its probably just polycount.com), theres a lot of character modelers there but its not a Unreal Specific site, theyve had character modelling comps (for Unreal) and stuff held there though.

I know that the SE version videos cover something like this (dont they make 2 sheets in theirs?) but im assuming youve allready looked at that and hit this problem while following along with the vids.

I suggest you check out the www.3dbuzz.com VTMs. There are some good Maya to UnrealEd vids there.

I use lightwave so I can't tell you myself.

Come on now MoonUnit, I worked on Unreal Tournament 2004 and I don't even rank a mention [:p]

Thanks for the links and info guys

Yes I did watch the SE video's and I am very annoyed as this one little issue is stopping me exporting and finishing my model >(

I've tried www.3dbuzz.com i've posted in 3 relevant areas of the forums but no one seems to be able to help me with my UV problems.

Is there someone I can post the issue on these forums?
The problem is basically maya related, I know what needs to be done I don't know how to fix it.

Does anyone here have Good Maya skills particuly with shading, textuing and the hypershade.

I would be forever gratefull if someone coudl solve this problem[8D]

I'll give it a go. I have never done any exporting to UT2Kx, but I may be able to help with Maya. If you can post everything that is happening and if possible, screen caps. I will do my best to help you out :)

oops sorry Rahnem!!! heh forgot we had someone who worked on it here :P
did you use Max or Maya tho Rahnem? wasnt the game mostly developed in max?

I just really like maya, to be honest I just enjoy modeling it more than max (even though they both do the same thing the only difference being the ungodly price tag).

Ok summery of my problem *deep breath*

I am modeling a character for UT2k4, it is my first model. The Mesh and skeleton are complete and I am ready to export to the Unreal Editor.

How ever when I try I get a very baddly fragmented render that looks terrible as seen here
[url]http://users.bigpond.net.au/TurpS-stuff/bad-export.jpg[/url]

I have tested and found the fault to be in my UV layout. I did this by just doing a plainer projection of the whole UV layout and it imported pefectly.
At the moment my UV layout has 2 layers.

One layer for the head, and one layer for the body texture. The head texture is laid over the body texture and they should be considered seperatly but are not and thus the Exporting problem occurs.
Here is my UV layout at the moment with the combined head and body on the left (how they are atm) and the seperate textures for clarification of my point in the middle and right.
[url]http://users.bigpond.net.au/TurpS-stuff/UV-status.jpg [/url]

The reason I am doing this is so a I can use the full sqaure for the head texture and get a much higher resolution. So programs such as U-paint can use this.
[url]http://sv2.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/attachment.php?s=&postid=602689. [/url]

I now come to my question.
I have assigned a seperate texture to each layer UV layer of the model, one for head and one for the body.
And these textures are displayed but Maya still thinks it is one UV map and thus heniously warps it upon exportation to Unreal Editor.

I know I have to do this somewhere in the hyper graph within maya but I can not see how to do it. There are only 2 textures listed one for head and one for body and all relevent geomerty has been assinged to each. I can see no other texture still assinged to the whole UV map , yet my problem persists.

So how do I seperate these 2 UV layers.
Any help is much appriciated as I am about to pull my hair out.

Cheers

Ok, I'll give a shot at answering some of those [:)]

First off, are you working in edit poly or mesh? I assume your working in Max since you mentioned stl check.
Have you deleted the faces on the inside of those vertices? It won'y let you weld vertices unless it is an open edge.

With the stl check, maybe check that you don't have any overlapping vertices, make sure theyre all welded. Sometimes cutting in max will produce unwanted vertices.

With the UV's, yes they are quite the pain [:)] but they get easier as you go on. Just try to keep each face 'happy' depending on how many seams you want. Less seams will mean you will get distortion, but distortion is more desirable then seams. Also how are you mapping? Good ol planar seems to work for me with about everything.

Hope that made some sense, heh.

quote:I've grouped both halves,

Makk, I think that's your problem right there, rather than grouping both halves what you need to do is attach one half to the other half so that they are one object. To do this just select one of the halves, go to the modify panel and in the first rollout there should be a button called 'attach', just click that and select the other half.

What does your stack look like at the moment? It should end up just being an edit mesh/poly and maybe a UVW unwrap on top.

As far as open edges go, you should only worry about them on a finished model if they appear where you wouldn't expect them to. They are an edge that doesn't have a face on both sides of it (from what I can figure, there might be more to it than that).

Hope this helps.

Thanks Wiz, that seems to work with welding the verts :D
The open edges were on the head. They dont appear odd or anything at all, so I guess thats ok.

Dez, thanks :) Im using MAX4

Beware the open edge, a while back now - i had nightmares because my model was blinking in and out of existance when imported into an engine, couldnt for the life of me figure out why. turns out the fog was interferring with my OPEN edges and rendering my model all stupid.

You can usually fix open edges simply with a target weld as well.

Best when your finished the model to throw an stl check onto it and clean up any errors.

Theres a list of other things i do when finishing a model for an engine too, just helps for exportation and eliminates most problems right off the bat.

As far as distortion goes - i wouldnt worry about it so much, as long as its not drastic, but that being said it does depend on where the distortion is, for example if the game involves alot of facial close-ups you dont want some hideous deformation across some human players face!

I tend to take into consideration what the model is for and how it will be viewed, when im mapping, and place the seems accordingly, i will spend only enough time to get the distortion to what i deem a reasonable state, its easily an area that can take up shitloads of time if your worried about small tweaks here and there!

Just remember that the squares of your checker map should look square when your looking square on to that face, so dont worry if they look a bit weird from another angle.

By streching the texture and the UV map, so it will look pretty dogy, but I am not really sure there mate.

If that does happen, can I tweak the uvs? or will it require completely remapping it?

Depending on how far you go, if you really have to chop it up, it would be quicker to start again, but if its only a few things here and there, it shouldnt mess it up too much and you can just jump in the uvw unwrap window and clean them up [:D]

Although a good model shouldnt need this, i find myself doing this kinda thing all the time, just to clean up niggles and bits and pieces that dont look or sit right [;)]

If your model is edit poly you can edit it quite alot with out distorting the mesh. Use the collapse and target weld tools. Its generally not all that hard to fix up the UV's anyway.

I received my upgrade to Maya 6 today in the mail. All five CDs :D I haven't actually installed it yet as I have been so busy with... er... playing Guild Wars :p Well it only lasts four days. I may as well.

My friend has had it for the last two weeks (he has the maintenance fee so he could download it on the 1st). I'll let you know what it is like soon, but it does seem to have som really nice features.

It is really different at first (compared to Max), but it grows on you :)

whats a tech smith? :)

techsmith is a video codec used by the camtasia software for video capturing -- in short, he's referring to video tutorials of peoples programs as they do 2d/3d work. They're quite good if you can afford the bandwidth, always good to see how people do stuff as they actually do it.

Only ones I've ever really payed much attention to so far has been the ones on the polycount video index:
http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/resources/general/video_tutorials/…

They are very dificult to find, but when you can get a hold of some, they are generally very useful. For 3D, I highly recommend the ones made by Martin Krol. http://www.izware.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001371.html Here are some by the ledgendary Bay Raitt. The first three are just animated gifs, but the last is an AVI. http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/movies/movies.html Before people ask, they are all done in a program called Mirai http://www.izware.com/mirai/index.htm And one last one for fans of 2D. Painted by Anry. http://www.anry.ru/gallery/tyrael_knight/tyrael_knight_eng.htm

Thanx ppl

Martin Krol is a champion, i have several massive create-a-model-from-scratch vids by him, totalling a few cd's - but i only have dial up so i cant upload any - but im sure people could find them somewhere. And mirai is also very cool - its fast has some useful polygonal modelling tools - but is very bare bones, compared to max or maya.

www.poopinmymouth.com he has a head of ones they are osted on fileplanet now so yeah

but goes through modeling and uvwmapping and some textureing

are you imaginative ? - do you have weird ideas stashed in your head ? if so - your about 1% the way there [:D]

life drawing classes i would suggest first - to teach form / lighting. and then do some colour theory - and start putting those skills your learn into expressing some o those crazy ideas inside your head.

of if you have some little figurines or anything like that put them on your desk shine a light on it - and copy it, so you can see how shadows are created and all that. just start drawing, but becoming a good concept artist takes years of practise.... so be prepared [:)]

This is an issue I'm concerned with. I've been "doodling" for years, and I've come up with a few decent concepts from time to time, but over all I think my traditional art skills are very limited and I really want to concentrate on them in the next few years.

My approach is to take as many traditional art courses/classes as possible, wether it is drawing with pastels or charcoal, or painting with oils or water colours, or even just theory, I think it will all help enormously (plus its fun!). On top of that I?ve been going through some learn to draw type books, studying anatomy and that kind of self-study thing.

There are plenty of part time traditional art courses around, I?m looking at doing one at the local TAFE a couple of nights a week next semester. This has the added advantage of getting a certificate at the end. But even just the local art stores can usually point you in the direction of casual art lessons. It all helps the digital artist (and certainly the concept artist).

Yup. Life drawing is great... Just don't go if you think you are the kind of person that will point and giggle at the wobbly bits.

Look at the local university for illustration short courses, too. Make sure you research the teacher though, I've kinda been stung in the ass a little.. Your teacher will spend generally more than the usual amount of time on his or her own medium.
The teacher I have works predominantly in collage, because of this, we spent a quarter of the semesters (2 classes.. Sounds better when you say a quarter)classes cutting shit up and glueing it down. It really sucked balls. To help give it a little perspective, we spent a grand total of one lesson on faces.

Truth be told, while I have been enjoying the classes, I haven't gotten as much out of it as life drawing. I think that if the teacher I had was focused more on say, comic art, I would be learning bucketloads, as it is, we focus way too much on the art that looks like it was done by a 5 year old... I can respect and appreciate that kind of art, but it's not really that useful from my point of view.

So yeah.. The point of that ramble is to make sure you have an idea of what you are getting yourself into.. Life drawing is fairly self explanatory.. - but be prepared to draw big fat naked grannies.. If that strikes you as disgustingly horrible.. I might suggest that it wouldn't be for you.. A certain level of maturity is required to get past the fact you are drawing naked people.

If maturitry is a factor for life drawing it probably isn't for me. I'm painfully immature for a 17 year old. Seriously you wouldnt believe it.

If maturitry is a factor for life drawing it probably isn't for me. I'm painfully immature for a 17 year old. Seriously you wouldnt believe it.

quote:Originally posted by Sorceror Bob

but be prepared to draw big fat naked grannies..

That's so funny cause it's true. Seriously I didn't think about that till you put it that way, ewwwww.

Yeah drawing, y'know, I've run into so many drawers over the years, and the most common piece of advice is just be observant of the things around you. How does a shape A look with material B within an environment with light C. Then it's up to you to apply the knowledge of these observations through the medium in your hand. Of course this takes ages to learn, but then again, the people who can do it generally have been doing it for ages anyway. So it's never too late. Or at least that's what I'm hoping!

www.conceptart.org, has some really fantastic artists and some hardcore tutorials that can help you out. It's also quite inspirational too just to go through peoples daily doodles.

being able to paint and create things realistically - is only the first step to being a concept artist tho - although its a major, it is a skill that will aid concept art.

Having a creative mind to come up with ideas that fit into a world created by a lead artist is a completely different kettle of fish, its more than just creating something that looks COOL.

But thats the next level i guess ;) learn to draw first [:D]

hey I'm in the same boat as you bullet, I really need to learn how to draw etc. I'm taking an elective next trimester 'fundamentals of drawing' so that should be fun and hopefully helpful. You can get some Loomis PDF's here [url]http://www.saveloomis.org/[/url]. There a really big help. [:D]

quote:Originally posted by Sorceror BobA certain level of maturity is required to get past the fact you are drawing naked people.

Not really. After your first 10-15 minutes of life drawing it becomes a total non-issue.

*hehe* - A certain level of maturity to deal with the fact that your drawing naked people?
What kind of level?
Like having actually seen a naked woman before? [:D]

-err, guess that counts me out [:I]

(um, I wasn't just cheeky to a moderator was I? Just kidding! Please hold your wrath!)

Just draw.

You'll learn what works for you best. Some people are never going to be realists, but their stuff kicks loads of ass. Remember, if you're practicing, draw what you see, not what you think you see.

at my first life drawing class everyone was nervous as, after like the first 20 minutes tho i think everyone was settled. You just get over it.

I'm just finding it really hard to find motivation. I downloaded the Concept Art VTM's from Buzz, and it's got some crazy bald guy who looks like the lead singer from Disturbed teaching me to draw. Maybe that's the motivation i need, I'm learning to draw from the lead singer of Disturbed ;)

I think maturity was the wrong word to use, attitude would have been a better choice.

Cutty - Sort of.. Yeah, for most people it's a non issue once you get going, but I have found that some people just censor the nudity.. Fully half the people in my class tend to forget to place the 'nads in the picture. *shrugs* I guess some people deal with it in different ways.

Palantir - *holds wrath*

Bullet - You should sign up for a class, Life drawing teaches skills any artist will find useful. Plus, it'll sort that motivational problem real quick, you're there to draw and nothing else :), no TV, or computer games to distract you.

i know what you mean bullet, though i love art dearly, sometimes i cbf to do a sketch and colour it instead of having another roud of UT2004. Bobs right about life drawing being perfect for your inspiration, your only purpose there is to draw.

bob: yeah i sorta take out the nade from my pics, not because of any nervous issues but because i dont think ill be spending that much time drawing nads when im not actually life drawing and would like to concentrate my efforts elsewhere instead of concentrating on the texture of the guys shlong.

yeah draw lots- and don't just doodle, really pay attention to the task. Anlayse what you are doing and how your next attempt can be better. With the marker art that I have recentily posted I did a few (7 in one case) practice drawings before the final one, and even then I redid sections.

I wouldn't recommend life drawing until you have a fair grasp of some basics. I've seen lots of people give up life drawing because they don't make quick head way with skills. Draw from life though- set up a still life, it doesn't have to be the traditional bowl of fruit. Pick something that is simple in shape initially, this will let you concerntrate on various aspects of the drawing process- line, form, light/shade, negative space, composition...

Some lessons are worth while too, especially to get you motivation started.

it sounds like a long tedious way - but id probably do it by hand.

nevertheless....

Create a dummy object and have that dummy object contrained to a circular path ( representing the wheel movement ), and also constrained to a position on that circular path ( representing the handle(s) position )

then id animate the wheel, and depending on the rig you could use a linking system and link the main hand heirarchy to the dummy object, which will give a rough guide of an animation for "steering the wheel".

also note that IMO - id definately use that method as a guide and tweak the animation by hand rather than let constraints and links sort the animation for you, it will probably look really bad just default-wise.

now if your talking about creating an attachment point to the wheel whereby any charcter could walk up and have his hands automatically reach for the handle - that would require alot more than just an animation - i think your coders would have to create some form of attachment point system for interactive objects in the game - whereby there are 2 attachment points, A & B say, and A is attached to the wheel handle and B is attached to the player meshs hand bone.

there would be some call somewhere that says at such and such a time, move point B into contact with point A, via animation tweening.

Hope that helps some, but would really need to know more specifically about what you have to work with. [:)]

this isn't for an interactive piece... this will be an animation exported out.

I added 2 dummy nodes (LHand, RHand) and they stick with the wheel moving... but how do I make a hand try to follow the nodes?
I certainly plan to clean the animation up... but it'd be good to have an 'aid' of sorts that always makes the hands try to be at a certain node. (that way I can just adjust the body and upper arms)

If the character starts with the wheel in his hands and doesnt take them off..why not make the character and wheel share the bone system...extend bones out of his palms and into the wheel..

Adam

Thats an interesting one urgrund - which version of char studio are you using ?

CStudio 3

...i think i may have caused the problem orginally when mucking around with the footsteps tab. Because now there's at least one footstep that I cannot get rid of (says something like "Inactive footstpes but not all inactive footsteps may be deleted)

Usually, if I never go near that footstep tab, I can set keyframes however I like with the biped.

Odd indeed, can't say I've ever had a problem like that. Maybe there's some hidden keyframe somewhere that you need to delete? Maybe it's in some mode that it shouldn't be in?

ok, i got around it... i thought that I could 'hack' the problem by goig along with it and just do my work whilst the biped is on 2 'jump' footsteps that actually last 100% of the timeframe (so he's static).

Then I accidently deleted one of them... and all footsteps went and I was back to being able to do whatever the hell i wanted with the biped :P

just so you know you can turn off foot step mode under the animation tab in biped roll out and un selecting the icon which looks like two foot prints.

I don't use foot step mode (the most usless thing for good animation I have even seen) so the maybe a step or two I don't know.

quote:Originally posted by Doord
I don't use foot step mode (the most usless thing for good animation I have even seen) .....

A bit like most of Character Studios tools if you ask me. [:P]

Can you please help i gat the same problem and im going made what do i do!! HELP!!

Finally i got it, hope this will help: Go to footsep mode, try to delete all the foot prints on the scene except the "zero" one you can't delete. then select that last foot print, and click "create keys for inactive footprints" (I am pretty sure it was this one). Your character should change position and pose like walking. Then, select this last footstep, and delete it, it should work. Now, yours footsteps are gone, go back to figure mode to get back your original position, and that's it !

When using Biped footsteps, it's often an either/or situation. What you have is inactive footsteps in your scene. You need to select them and click the delete footsteps button (down near the activate footsteps button, about 2nd to the right). If you can't select them, activate them first, then select and delete.
A work-around is to come out of footstep mode by turning off the footsteps button (the one with the green and blue feet on it) going to the Layers rollout and adding a new animation layer. Turn on auto key and animate away. Layers allow additional animation to be placed on top of the footstep animation and will allow you to animate even if you have footsteps in the scene.